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  #1  
Old 08-03-2013, 07:30 AM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Default Why isn't Robin being blamed more for this debacle?

I've seen some negative comments on Robin, but overall it is pretty tame here with regards to him and his coaching staff. Why? While thte players are the one's playing the game, surely management has a role. If they don't then why fire a manager to begin with?

In years past this place would have been afire if this team was this bad under Manuel or Guillen. If there was a WSI when Bevington was around, this website may have crashed from so many irate and angry users.

So while the Sox have had their share of bad luck this year, there are enough issues with Robin and his coaching staff that seriously to need to be examined. Again, while the blame is more placed on the players, I still believe management can be making better decisions in some regards:
1. The Hitting. A .247 team BA. A .303 OBP. No power. What happened here? Same team as last year minus AJ and an older PK. What if Walker were hitting coach. Would this be acceptable. How about shaking up the line up or benching struggling players for more then a day or 2?

And the hitting in the clutch is below average too. Hasn't this team figured out that the pressure is on the pitchers and not the hitters when men are on base and htere are less then 2 outs. The Cardinals are hitting .335 through 107 games with men in scoring position. That is an anomaly. But so is the Sox hitting.

2. Discipline. It took Robin until July 26 to bench Rios for not hustling. And since then no one has been pulled from a game for that reason. And while we are at it, let's wait an inning and a half before doing it. I didn't realize that all Sox players have been hustling all year. Fooled me. ANd next time, do it like Bobby Cox did to Andruw Jones and pull him right away. A little public humiliation is a good thing.

3. Defense-Do they still do pregame infield practice? Lots of physicall errors. How did they fall so far? Just a bad season? Lack of discipline.

4. Base running. See 3 above. Consistent mental mistakes need to be addressed, even if it's for a benhing. Baserunning this year is terrible. It's something that should have been learned years ago in little league, but probably wasn't as stars tend to gloss over the fundamentals. Clearly the Sox minor league system is incapable of producing a hitter let alone teaching him how to run the bases smartly or not get picked off. So Robin needs to step it up a bit. Bench De Aza when he misuns. When Rios or Danks get stupidly picked off do something. Or, if you're Rick Hahn and think issues are being addressed, then do something else because the current way ain't working.

5. Pitching has been solid all year. My only point of contention here is (and I will put in all caps to fire people up, especially specific posters who think they know it all): DON'T LET CHRIS SALE PITCH 120+ PITCHES ANYMORE THIS YEAR. THE TEAM IS PLAYING FOR A #1 PICK IN THE DRAFT NOT A PLAYOFF SPOT. MOST TEAMS DON'T PITCH THEIR STARTERS THAT MUCH TO BEGIN WITH. CHRIS AND HIS UNIQUE DELIVERY MAKE HIM MORE SUSCPECTIBLE TO INJURY (IF SALE BLOWS OUT HIS ELBOW HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL LOOK BACK AT ROBIN LEAVING HIM IN GAMES IN A LOST SEASON.)

If the team wants to look at young arms, a good time to do it would be when you're not burning out your star pitcher over a meaningless game in a meaningless season. Keep doing this and you know what happens (assuming no injury?) This star pitcher becomes a free agent. You sign this star pitcher to a whopping contract. This star pitcher suddenly becomes human after the wear and tear (ie see 2013 Verlander, Zito for the last 8 years to name a couple.)


Bob
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2013, 08:44 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gosox41 View Post
1. The Hitting. A .247 team BA. A .303 OBP. No power. What happened here? Same team as last year minus AJ and an older PK. What if Walker were hitting coach. Would this be acceptable. How about shaking up the line up or benching struggling players for more then a day or 2?

And the hitting in the clutch is below average too. Hasn't this team figured out that the pressure is on the pitchers and not the hitters when men are on base and htere are less then 2 outs. The Cardinals are hitting .335 through 107 games with men in scoring position. That is an anomaly. But so is the Sox hitting.
This would bother me less if it was some anomaly, as if a bunch of good hitters suddenly can't execute, but the real problem is that the cause of this is actually team strategy.

I was one of the people calling for Walker to go, but even he wouldn't push for players to swing at first pitches, swing aggressively at all counts, don't take pitches, walks are bad, etc. This just feeds a players natural instinct to go for the fences and pad stats over going into an at-bat with a plan suited to how the team can score runs in the current situation.

I get it that the staff wanted a departure from Ozzie's brand of offensive baseball, but this is just plain bad baseball. With so many 0-2 and 1-2 counts, we're giving every pitcher we face a distinct advantage.

Before we get the next wave of hitters on the club, Manto either needs to go or drastically change the teams philosophy on how to approach an at-bat.
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2013, 09:34 AM
Bobby Thigpen Bobby Thigpen is offline
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I don't blame Robin for this because you can't make chicken salad out of chicken crap. This roster is terrible. As the trade deadline showed, there's only about two position players that any other team in the league had any interest in.

Had the Sox done this under Manuel or Ozzie, I'd be mad as heck. But just because those teams were filled with young, promising talent. This team is filled with old, worn out stars or young players that aren't any good.
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  #4  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:07 AM
soxfanreggie soxfanreggie is offline
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Bob,

It's hard for me to blame Robin for all the team's woes considering what he has had to work with. Dunn, Rios, and Konerko were all signed to big contracts before he came. Konerko was good at the start of his but he is ready to retire now. Dunn has been a monumental flop and Rios has been very inconsistent. When your top paid guys (3 and 4-hole type hitters) aren't performing, especially more than one, it's tough to win. The "additions" to the line-up were Keppinger and Flowers, and out of that we lost AJ. Let's call a spade a spade: this offense is horrible.

I do hold him responsible for the defense. We've taken great steps back in that arena.

If you look at how our starting pitching has been, we quickly forget that were often without 40%-60% of our expected starting pitching for the year (Danks, Floyd, Peavy). Coop has gotten so much of guys like Quintana and Santiago.
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  #5  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:13 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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I think this was the plan all along. Hire Robin to be a cheerful face and an inept manager, while the team plummets in the standings, sells off the dead wood, and accumulates draft picks.
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  #6  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:16 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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I don't think Robin is a very good manager, but Bobby Cox could not win with this group. Its a freaking pile of ****. Konerko's career is over. Dunn has not worked out, Alexei is old and on the downside, De Aza was a cast off from Miami, Gillaspie was a cast off from SF, Keppinger hasn't worked out, The league adjusted to Tank and he failed to adjust back, Rios is Rios, Phegley and Flowers are neither very good (how out is the book on Josh, just throw him a Curveball and watch him wiff like he is playing softball).

In terms of the defense, this is where Robin's lack of leadership is exposed. That clubhouse is toxic right now and players have given up. That shows more than anything in the field as they play flat. There is not 1 high energy guy on this team, not 1 leader. That is a problem.

This is going to take Hahn a couple of years to fix the mess Kenny created. Robin is just the placeholder.
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  #7  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:26 AM
amsteel amsteel is offline
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If he can't be blamed for this year, he can't get any credit for last year, right?
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  #8  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:36 AM
24thStFan 24thStFan is offline
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Regarding defense and base running, do they even practice this during the season? Given our deficiencies in these area, I would hope the manager would have the whole team out early every day taking infield practice, running the bases, practicing run downs and how to avoid pick-offs, etc.

The Sox may be doing this, but I haven't heard or read anything about it. Anyone here know if this is occurring?
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  #9  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:54 AM
soxtalker soxtalker is offline
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Well, he does seem to be the object of a lot of criticism lately -- both from the media and fans. I wouldn't expect the GM to criticize him.

Robin may be doing pretty much what he was brought in to do -- manage the team during what was expected to be a few very difficult years.
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  #10  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:57 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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If this roster was competitive last season, I think Robin deserves some blame for the total collapse. Obviously the fundamentals have really declined which may mean that last year's good defense reflects on the work of the previous coaching staff.
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  #11  
Old 08-03-2013, 11:03 AM
WLL1855 WLL1855 is offline
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If it makes you feel better, go ahead and put Ventura's head on a stick. You are fooling yourself if you think it makes this team in any way better.
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2013, 11:11 AM
KingXerxes KingXerxes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I think this was the plan all along. Hire Robin to be a cheerful face and an inept manager, while the team plummets in the standings, sells off the dead wood, and accumulates draft picks.
I doubt the powers that be are that smart.
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  #13  
Old 08-03-2013, 12:28 PM
Fastball23 Fastball23 is offline
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I hope that we hire Dave Martinez. RV needs to be gone
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  #14  
Old 08-03-2013, 12:52 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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How can you law blame at the feet of a man who had zero qualifications for the position for which he was hired? Blame belongs to the persons who hired him.
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  #15  
Old 08-03-2013, 01:04 PM
Fastball23 Fastball23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
How can you law blame at the feet of a man who had zero qualifications for the position for which he was hired? Blame belongs to the persons who hired him.
You're 100% right.
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