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  #31  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:40 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
The only one who called him out was Rios after Robin sat him for loafing. Rios thought being taken out of the game was embarrassing and unneccessary. He hasn't lost the clubhouse at all.
Sale called him out after the intentional walk to Cabrera, he later apologized to the media but he still called Ventura out.
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  #32  
Old 08-03-2013, 11:02 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Almost every manager and coach has to work his way up through the minors like regular players. I have serious doubts Ventura was hired because he came off an interview sounding like the next coming of Tony LaRussa.
Eddie Stanky didn't manage in the minors. Leo Durocher didn't, and he is in the Hall of Fame as a manager. The last Indians World Series championship was won by a manager who was hired with no minor league managerial experience. The last manager to manage the White Sox to a World Series championship had no minor league managing experience. Tony LaRussa, though, was in his second season as a minor league manager when he was hired by the White Sox, but Harry Caray used to say he was only hired to save money because Bill Veeck was too cheap to hire a real manager.
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  #33  
Old 08-03-2013, 11:34 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Mike Matheny is another terrible hire.
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  #34  
Old 08-04-2013, 07:31 AM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Eddie Stanky didn't manage in the minors. Leo Durocher didn't, and he is in the Hall of Fame as a manager. The last Indians World Series championship was won by a manager who was hired with no minor league managerial experience. The last manager to manage the White Sox to a World Series championship had no minor league managing experience. Tony LaRussa, though, was in his second season as a minor league manager when he was hired by the White Sox, but Harry Caray used to say he was only hired to save money because Bill Veeck was too cheap to hire a real manager.

The game has changed a lot since. And not just the game, but the economics. I think if a guy truly wants to be a manager (even if he was a great player aka Ryne Sandberg) he needs to work his way up. That shows a love of the game and the need to learn all facets. And it may also be a personal financial incentive for some who didn't make a butt load of money (or just blew it all) to do what it takes to win.

Or look at from what I think is Robin's perspectve. Here he is, retired from baseball for 5 years, enjoying the good life with my his loving wife of a long time and two teen age daughters. Living n beautiful California, driving the kids two school, hanging with the famiy, living stress free since he has banked $55MM during his playing days and my guess is was probably smart enough not to blow through it--ie his daughters are probably financially secure if he choose them to be.

Then one day a GM calls him and asks to meet with him. At the meeting he is offered a ML Manager job. Now keep in mind Robin wasn't out there looking for one. So what goes through Robins' head. Something like this:


"The game I love and miss has offered me one of only 30 available jobs. They will even pay me a mid-high six figure salary. Along with this comes the perk that I am being handed the job and don't have to work my way up to it like just about all other managers in the last 10 years have. Of course I'll take it. It gets me back in the game I love. I get to make some extra money. I don't have to pay me dues. My boss is going to lay off of me because they know my previous experience and they came to me with the offer, not vice versa. Of course I'll give it a shot. I'm only in my upper 40's. Don't want to get too bored."

I would do the same thing. Someone wants to pay me a lot of money to do something I love, even if I have never done it before and I'll jump at it in heart beat. And it's all because I scored high on some alleged leadership test in 1998.

KW messed this up big time. Why a team would invest $100MM+ in payroll and not bring in an experienced proven winner is beyond me.


Bob
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  #35  
Old 08-04-2013, 10:53 AM
captain54 captain54 is offline
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KW messed this up big time. Why a team would invest $100MM+ in payroll and not bring in an experienced proven winner is beyond me.


Bob
When Ventura was hired, he was the anti - Ozzie.. The sentimentality of Ozzie without the BS.. Also, you are assuming it was 100% KW's call to hire Ventura..debateable
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  #36  
Old 08-04-2013, 11:10 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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When Ventura was hired, he was the anti - Ozzie.. The sentimentality of Ozzie without the BS.. Also, you are assuming it was 100% KW's call to hire Ventura..debateable
But I would assume he was not Hahn's hire. A GM trying to rebuild a team needs his own manager and coaching staff. JR assumed that the best replacement for his longtime SS turned manager was his longtime 3rd baseman. Hopefully Hahn gets to make the decision going forward. Although Thome may be already auditioning for the spot.
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  #37  
Old 08-04-2013, 01:43 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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It's freaking baseball not rocket science, he played the game at the highest level for 15 years. He was always considered a leader. He has more "experience" than anyone on this board, so using your logic, none of us would ever be in a position to critique.
I disagree with you completely. Experience - real experience - is what is required for almost every professional job. Should I be the Senior VP in change of something at McDonald's corp because I was a manager at a local McDonald's?
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  #38  
Old 08-04-2013, 01:45 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Eddie Stanky didn't manage in the minors. Leo Durocher didn't, and he is in the Hall of Fame as a manager. The last Indians World Series championship was won by a manager who was hired with no minor league managerial experience. The last manager to manage the White Sox to a World Series championship had no minor league managing experience. Tony LaRussa, though, was in his second season as a minor league manager when he was hired by the White Sox, but Harry Caray used to say he was only hired to save money because Bill Veeck was too cheap to hire a real manager.
The small number of examples doesn't change things.
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  #39  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:17 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bobby Thigpen View Post
I don't blame Robin for this because you can't make chicken salad out of chicken crap. This roster is terrible. As the trade deadline showed, there's only about two position players that any other team in the league had any interest in.

Had the Sox done this under Manuel or Ozzie, I'd be mad as heck. But just because those teams were filled with young, promising talent. This team is filled with old, worn out stars or young players that aren't any good.
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How can you law blame at the feet of a man who had zero qualifications for the position for which he was hired? Blame belongs to the persons who hired him.
This is pretty much how I feel about it. Unlike the teams that Manual and Ozzie managed, this team just flat out sucks.

But, mostly, I really can't get worked up about Robin's performance because this is pretty much what I expected when the Sox hired a guy with zero professional managing or coaching experience.
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  #40  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:21 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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But, mostly, I really can't get worked up about Robin's performance because this is pretty much what I expected when the Sox hired a guy with zero professional managing or coaching experience.
But he played the game at the highest level for 15 years! All he did on that field was think about strategy. I hear was basically a player/manager for Jeff Torborg.

"Why do you feel you are qualified to be the CEO of this corporation?"

"I have shopped at your best stores for years, and I was even employed as an assistant manager once."

"You're hired!"
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  #41  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:24 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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The small number of examples doesn't change things.
Also, comparing Robin's situation to people who managed 60 or 75 years ago really isn't a convincing argument to me that the Sox were right to hire a person with zero experience to manage this major league ball club.

Plus, the "last manager to manage the White Sox to a championship" was a major league coach before he was hired by the White Sox.
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  #42  
Old 08-04-2013, 04:57 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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This is great preparation for Robin if the Sox ever want him to manage Kannapolis.
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  #43  
Old 08-04-2013, 05:04 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
Mike Matheny is another terrible hire.
He had coaching experience in the minors though. He also works for a great organization. It would be awfully hard to screw up that situation.
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  #44  
Old 08-04-2013, 05:06 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Also, comparing Robin's situation to people who managed 60 or 75 years ago really isn't a convincing argument to me that the Sox were right to hire a person with zero experience to manage this major league ball club.

Plus, the "last manager to manage the White Sox to a championship" was a major league coach before he was hired by the White Sox.
Right, that was a completely different era and the job is a lot more complicated now the way baseball has become specialized, free agency, multi-million dollar egos and sensitivities. It simply is not a good comparison at all. What the Sox did was completely out of the box and a huge gamble. I'm not sure if it has ever happened recently, a manager with zero coaching experience professionally.
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  #45  
Old 08-04-2013, 05:33 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Also, comparing Robin's situation to people who managed 60 or 75 years ago really isn't a convincing argument to me that the Sox were right to hire a person with zero experience to manage this major league ball club.

Plus, the "last manager to manage the White Sox to a championship" was a major league coach before he was hired by the White Sox.
One of the examples was for a manager hired with no minor or major league experience less than a decade ago, and that manager won a World Series in his second year. Of course, coaches have entirely different relationships with players than managers do. Being on a coaching staff does not prepare a player to be a manager any more than being a veteran who makes himself accessible to younger players.

Another example posted in this thread was of a manager hired with no minor league experience to his first major league job before last season. And he appears postseason bound. The big difference in managing today over 50 years ago is dealing with players getting paid big money. But if you manage in the minors, you rarely manage big-money players. Ventura played in more than 2,000 major league games, was a big money player, dealt with bigger-money players, and understands the strategy of baseball as much as he would with minor league experience.

What you find with more experienced managers is that they don't think out of the box as much. They tend to bunt far more than fans would like. They tend to be more conservative. Managers tend to become more conservative as they spend more time in the majors.

Had Ventura managed in the majors last year and done what he did at the majors (in a season essentially without September), would he be more qualified to be a manager in the majors this year? One successful year in the minors was all Bruce Bochy had before the Padres named him as manager.
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