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  #31  
Old 08-06-2013, 01:22 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by hawkjt View Post
No surprise to me on Tank. He has decent hands,and with work can play first,which is a natural position for him.

Remember Moneyball and the non 1st baseman that Billy Beane wanted at 1st? They trained him and he did ok.

Tank is going to learn and bounce back from this year at the plate.
Too early to give up on him.

Tank,Gordo, Alexei,Conner,Josh,Garcia,Rios,DeAza and Dunn could be competitive if the pitching stays good and they hit the ball like they can.
I agree with your assessment of Tank- he's only 24 yo- he can bounce back- not sold on Gillaspie or Phegley at this point.

And I'm done with De Aza- way too many brain dead players on this roster.
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  #32  
Old 08-07-2013, 10:58 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by hawkjt View Post
Tank is going to learn and bounce back from this year at the plate.
Too early to give up on him.
People have been saying that for 2+ seasons. He's now at 1095 ABs, he is what he is. A power/K-only hitter, who's becoming too expensive for what he's producing.

And considering how other Cubans have fudged on their ages, even his age (24) could be in question.
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  #33  
Old 08-07-2013, 12:18 PM
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People have been saying that for 2+ seasons. He's now at 1095 ABs, he is what he is. A power/K-only hitter, who's becoming too expensive for what he's producing.

And considering how other Cubans have fudged on their ages, even his age (24) could be in question.
My philosophy has always been the third full season is usually the year you make a judgment about a guy. For Tank, that would be next year.

And, frankly, the White Sox are in a position where it isn't harming them much if they show a little patience with him.
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  #34  
Old 08-07-2013, 12:58 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Viciedo's SO's are down.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #35  
Old 08-07-2013, 01:10 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Viciedo's SO's are down.
As are his power numbers.

I'd rather see the Sox acquire a good hitter for 1B next year, rather than hope Viciedo turns things around with no track record to the contrary.

I wouldn't mind giving him one more year in LF/lower in the order before he hits arb next offseason.

IMO we haven't had such a maddening player since Brian Anderson when it comes to perceived talent vs. actual results.
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  #36  
Old 08-07-2013, 02:17 PM
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IMO we haven't had such a maddening player since Brian Anderson when it comes to perceived talent vs. actual results.
Anderson was far more maddening that Viciedo will ever be.
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  #37  
Old 08-07-2013, 02:21 PM
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I'd rather see the Sox acquire a good hitter for 1B next year, rather than hope Viciedo turns things around with no track record to the contrary.
I guess we're just ignoring minor league production if it contradicts our preconceived notions now?
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  #38  
Old 08-07-2013, 03:11 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
As are his power numbers.

I'd rather see the Sox acquire a good hitter for 1B next year, rather than hope Viciedo turns things around with no track record to the contrary.

I wouldn't mind giving him one more year in LF/lower in the order before he hits arb next offseason.
Yes, I'd rather keep him in left and let him battle for playing time with DeAza and Garcia. We can't expect the White Sox to acquire seven new everyday players in one off-season, but a mediocre hitting firstbaseman (compared to other first baseman) should be relatively easy to acquire and helpful to improving the lineup.
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  #39  
Old 08-07-2013, 03:12 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I guess we're just ignoring minor league production if it contradicts our preconceived notions now?
How's minor league production relevant? Are the Sox moving to the International League next year or what?

Anyway, Russ was still advocating giving Viciedo another chance in left. It makes sense, if Viciedo continues to flop we should have OFers to take his place, not necessarily the case at firstbase unless you really like players like Keppinger. Seems like a bad idea for Viciedo to learn how to be a major league first basemen when he still doesn't seem to have figured out how to be a major league hitter.
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  #40  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:38 PM
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How's minor league production relevant? Are the Sox moving to the International League next year or what?
Is that a joke? It's how you establish a young players' track record.
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  #41  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:50 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Is that a joke? It's how you establish a young players' track record.
The problem with your argument is that Dayan is much in-line with his minor league production. Career minor league numbers of like a .790 OPS. He had one "breakout year" I guess, but he never hit .300, he had a .900 OPS, 20 homer max. He was a good hitter, nothing special. His major league translation actually hasn't been as far off as people think.

The real problem is, until we got Garcia, the Sox have not had a true top flight young hitter in the minors in YEARS. So people expect Tank to come up and be a game changer, middle of the order hitter, and that was not his major league MO. He is a quality 6 or 7 hitter, .800 OPS, 20 or so homers, 80 or so RBI if he maxes. I know Hawk RAVED about his light tower power, but that is BP, and in the pros, most guys have that in BP.

I would suspect Tank is what he is at this point... .250 avg .730 OPS-20 homer-75 RBI
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  #42  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
The problem with your argument is that Dayan is much in-line with his minor league production. Career minor league numbers of like a .790 OPS. He had one "breakout year" I guess, but he never hit .300, he had a .900 OPS, 20 homer max. He was a good hitter, nothing special. His major league translation actually hasn't been as far off as people think.
It's a little disingenuous to dismiss a guy as a career .790 OPS minor league hitter without mentioning the steady rise in his OPS; .708, .801, and .856
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  #43  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:57 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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It's a little disingenuous to dismiss a guy as a career .790 OPS minor league hitter without mentioning the steady rise in his OPS; .708, .801, and .856
I did mention his breakout year... and an .856 OPS in AAA is not super impressive. Especially when the cause of the jump was not an increase in power production, but walking 45 times and not 11.
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  #44  
Old 08-07-2013, 05:02 PM
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I did mention his breakout year... and an .856 OPS in AAA is not super impressive. Especially when the cause of the jump was not an increase in power production, but walking 45 times and not 11.
... which was the knock against Viciedo's game, his lack of pitch awareness and eye at the plate.

Also, .856 was a Top 25 OPS in the International League in 2011 while being the 4th youngest player in the league. I would say that is decent production given such an aggressive placement.
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  #45  
Old 08-07-2013, 05:45 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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I find it interesting that Beckham, Alexei and Viciedo have all seen their home runs per AB drop pretty significantly yet all three seem to have increased their doubles per AB. Maybe Manto is getting them to change their batting approach.

Last edited by SCCWS; 08-07-2013 at 05:45 PM. Reason: sp
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