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  #16  
Old 09-11-2013, 06:28 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
Crain has a history of fragile health. To pitch him as if that wasn't so was mindless.
The point you are missing is that Crain had no trade value if he wasn't pitched the way he was.

It wasn't mindless to pitch Crain as he was. It would have been mindless for a team to give up anything in trade for a relief pitcher who was treated as if he was too fragile to pitch that way.
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  #17  
Old 09-11-2013, 08:56 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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The point you are missing is that Crain had no trade value if he wasn't pitched the way he was.

It wasn't mindless to pitch Crain as he was. It would have been mindless for a team to give up anything in trade for a relief pitcher who was treated as if he was too fragile to pitch that way.
Well played.
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  #18  
Old 09-11-2013, 10:06 PM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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The point you are missing is that Crain had no trade value if he wasn't pitched the way he was.

It wasn't mindless to pitch Crain as he was. It would have been mindless for a team to give up anything in trade for a relief pitcher who was treated as if he was too fragile to pitch that way.
You're right. It's smart to use a pitcher so much that he goes on the DL before the all-star break. That improves his trade value by leaps and bounds. Imagine what we could have got if Crain went on the DL even sooner.
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  #19  
Old 09-11-2013, 10:09 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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You're right. It's smart to use a pitcher so much that he goes on the DL before the all-star break. That improves his trade value by leaps and bounds. Imagine what we could have got if Crain went on the DL even sooner.


You're missing the point, how much more than cash could the Sox have realistically gotten for Crain if they had shown they were reluctant to use him?
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  #20  
Old 09-11-2013, 10:57 PM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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You're missing the point, how much more than cash could the Sox have realistically gotten for Crain if they had shown they were reluctant to use him?
Not missing any points. I now know some have trouble distinguishing the difference between common sense usage and proving you're not "reluctant" to pitch a fragile pitcher into the ground.
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  #21  
Old 09-11-2013, 11:02 PM
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Not missing any points. I now know some have trouble distinguishing the difference between common sense usage and proving you're not "reluctant" to pitch a fragile pitcher into the ground.
He was not overused. He is just injury-prone. Saying Crain was overused is like saying Quentin was overused when he was here. Some guys just get injured more than others. Regardless, a middle reliever is not bringing back much at all. The major benefit of trading Crain was always going to be salary relief. That's really all there is to it.
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  #22  
Old 09-12-2013, 12:59 AM
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Not missing any points. I now know some have trouble distinguishing the difference between common sense usage and proving you're not "reluctant" to pitch a fragile pitcher into the ground.
The Sox are no worse off for pitching Crain as any team would expect to pitch a $4.5 million middle reliever with a sub-1 ERA. By not pitching him, they might have lost more games during the first three months of the season while establishing that Crain wasn't worth a prospect in return.

The Sox gave Crain a chance to increase his trade value and attractiveness to a contender (who most certainly would have expected to be able to pitch Crain frequently if he had cost them talent) and increase his market value in his free-agent year. The Sox would be no better off if they had not.
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  #23  
Old 09-12-2013, 01:08 AM
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Not missing any points. I now know some have trouble distinguishing the difference between common sense usage and proving you're not "reluctant" to pitch a fragile pitcher into the ground.
Yeah, right, the Sox have the best pitching coach and training staff in baseball but the guy on the internet message board is clearly the authority
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  #24  
Old 09-12-2013, 06:24 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Not missing any points. I now know some have trouble distinguishing the difference between common sense usage and proving you're not "reluctant" to pitch a fragile pitcher into the ground.
Crain pitched 12 innings a month. If that is overuse, you couldn't get anything for him anyway.
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  #25  
Old 09-12-2013, 08:40 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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I didn't think they over-pitched Crain, unless you think he should have been pitched less than average because of his tendency to get injured. That wouldn't have helped.

He didn't get any of the six-games in a row, 8/11 days treatment or the equivalent of multiple 110+ pitch games our starters got from the best pitching coach in baseball and brilliant manager.
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  #26  
Old 09-12-2013, 11:19 PM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Yeah, right, the Sox have the best pitching coach and training staff in baseball but the guy on the internet message board is clearly the authority
You mean the pitching coach who believed Sale belonged in the bullpen and the training staff which didn't detect Flowers' season-long shot shoulder?

I think Cooper and the training staff are great, but they make mistakes, too (though the training staff had nothing to do with breaking a fragile pitcher before the all-star break). Let's be honest, Cooper is having trouble taking care of himself these days.
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  #27  
Old 09-13-2013, 03:10 PM
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You mean the pitching coach who believed Sale belonged in the bullpen and the training staff which didn't detect Flowers' season-long shot shoulder?

I think Cooper and the training staff are great, but they make mistakes, too (though the training staff had nothing to do with breaking a fragile pitcher before the all-star break). Let's be honest, Cooper is having trouble taking care of himself these days.
In the end, it makes no difference. If Crain is too fragile to be pitched as a go-to set-up man, he isn't worth a prospect. So if the White Sox overused him in the final year of his contract, they didn't hurt his trade value. The only way they were going to get talent in return from him is to pitch him the way they did to prove that he wasn't a fragile pitcher and worth something from a contender in need of a major league relief pitcher who could help them win games in the heat of a divisional race.

Blaming the White Sox for "breaking Crain" is ridiculous. Pitching him as if he wasn't a fragile pitcher, as if he were a $4.5 million veteran reliever, was the only option the White Sox had.
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  #28  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:31 PM
yazz32 yazz32 is offline
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Crain could be ready to pitch next week if all goes well...

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/rays/c...t-week/2141708
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