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  #1  
Old 11-22-2013, 10:06 AM
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Default Cardinals interested in Alexei?

That is according to GM John Mozeliak in a column from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Cites that the Sox and Cards had some talks at the trade deadline but never got very serious. Says the Sox need to be realistic and not "delusional."

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colum...0aead2b04.html
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2013, 02:18 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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I think "delusional" came from the St. Louis columnist, who termed Ramirez a "slick-fielding" shortstop whose offense is fading.

I have no doubt that the White Sox demanded more for Ramirez than the Cardinals were wanting to pay. I wouldn't criticize White Sox management for that. If the White Sox were to trade Ramirez, I would hope it would like it to be fore a return Bernie Miklasz, or even the Cardinals front office considers delusional.

I don't think the White Sox will be any less delusional in regards to Ramirez this off-season after signing Abreu.
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:47 PM
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The Sox are delusional if they are asking for Wacha or Miller or Rosenthal, and I bet that is the case.
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  #4  
Old 11-22-2013, 03:07 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
The Sox are delusional if they are asking for Wacha or Miller or Rosenthal, and I bet that is the case.
I wouldn't call it delusional, i would call it smart. Apparently the White Sox don't feel Alexei must go so why settle for anything? If you love your house have no intention of moving and one day someone knocks on your door and says they would like to buy your house, do you figure out fair market value and say it's yours or do you offer it a "delusional" price? The White sox aren't in the business of helping the Cardinals.
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:07 PM
ZombieRob ZombieRob is offline
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  #6  
Old 11-22-2013, 03:23 PM
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The Sox just lost out on Bourjos as the Angels traded him to the Cardinals for Freese; guess they weren't interested in Ramirez or DeAza; and then again maybe they got Bourjos to entise the Sox in a Ramirez trade.
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  #7  
Old 11-22-2013, 03:40 PM
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The Sox are delusional if they are asking for Wacha or Miller or Rosenthal, and I bet that is the case.
Why? This isn't the case of the White Sox putting Ramirez on an auction block and withdrawing him because he failed to make the reserve. This is the Cardinals needing a shortstop, going to the White Sox, who didn't even have a back-up shortstop most of last season, and asking what the White Sox would charge for their shortstop.

The Cardinals were a World Series team. If the Cardinals need a shortstop, it's delusional to think they pick up a shortstop without paying for one. The market is based on supply and demand. If you're the Cardinals and you're looking for a shortstop, it's a seller's market. If that weren't the case, the Cardinals would no longer be looking for a shortstop.

I would expect the White Sox not to trade Ramirez unless another team offered a package they couldn't pass up.
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Old 11-22-2013, 04:01 PM
sullythered sullythered is offline
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Originally Posted by RCWHITESOX View Post
The Sox just lost out on Bourjos as the Angels traded him to the Cardinals for Freese; guess they weren't interested in Ramirez or DeAza; and then again maybe they got Bourjos to entise the Sox in a Ramirez trade.
Peter Bourjos? Ick. No, thanks. 27 years old, doesn't get on base or his for any power.
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:40 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCWHITESOX View Post
The Sox just lost out on Bourjos as the Angels traded him to the Cardinals for Freese; guess they weren't interested in Ramirez or DeAza; and then again maybe they got Bourjos to entise the Sox in a Ramirez trade.
Bourjos is a defensive centerfielder. Cards needed one of those....so do wel. They also need a SS. I wouldn't think they'd have ever needed DeAza.
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Old 11-23-2013, 02:04 PM
cards press box cards press box is offline
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The Sox are delusional if they are asking for Wacha or Miller or Rosenthal, and I bet that is the case.
I can't imagine that the Cardinals ever had any interest in dealing any of those guys last summer. But, if I recall correctly, there were rumors that the Sox had interest in Carlos Martinez. I could see the Sox trying to acquire him as either a future starter or closer. I wonder if the discussions that the Sox had in dealing Alexei Ramirez involved Martinez?
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  #11  
Old 11-23-2013, 03:09 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Why? This isn't the case of the White Sox putting Ramirez on an auction block and withdrawing him because he failed to make the reserve. This is the Cardinals needing a shortstop, going to the White Sox, who didn't even have a back-up shortstop most of last season, and asking what the White Sox would charge for their shortstop.

The Cardinals were a World Series team. If the Cardinals need a shortstop, it's delusional to think they pick up a shortstop without paying for one. The market is based on supply and demand. If you're the Cardinals and you're looking for a shortstop, it's a seller's market. If that weren't the case, the Cardinals would no longer be looking for a shortstop.

I would expect the White Sox not to trade Ramirez unless another team offered a package they couldn't pass up.
I don't want to act like there's not a market for shortstops, but it's overstated if we're talking about getting a good price for...lesser quality, which is essentially what Alexei has become. There are a few good shortstops on the free agent market (and one that even comes without any draft pick compensations). There's also a ton of them on the trade market. Why would they pay a high price for Alexei Ramirez if they could, say, contact a team like Cleveland and pay a significantly lower price to take Asdrubal Cabrera off their hands? They make about the same money and were pretty much just as valuable last season.

If we're waiting for the market to make Alexei valuable enough to get a great piece...we'll be waiting until he retires.
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  #12  
Old 11-26-2013, 12:42 AM
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With the Cardinals' signing Jhonny Peralta, I suppose we can shelve the Alexei Ramirez to St. Louis rumors. But other teams, like the Mets and the Pirates, could use a shortstop, so a trade of Ramirez is not necessarily out of the question.
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  #13  
Old 11-26-2013, 10:35 AM
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I don't want to act like there's not a market for shortstops, but it's overstated if we're talking about getting a good price for...lesser quality, which is essentially what Alexei has become. There are a few good shortstops on the free agent market (and one that even comes without any draft pick compensations). There's also a ton of them on the trade market. Why would they pay a high price for Alexei Ramirez if they could, say, contact a team like Cleveland and pay a significantly lower price to take Asdrubal Cabrera off their hands? They make about the same money and were pretty much just as valuable last season.

If we're waiting for the market to make Alexei valuable enough to get a great piece...we'll be waiting until he retires.
You are totally missing the point. The White Sox were not in the market to trade Ramirez during the season. They have not been in the market to trade Ramirez during this offseason. If you are a team that wants Ramirez, it is inappropriate to claim that the White Sox are overvaluing him. Being open to trading players, listening to what other teams will trade for players, is not the same as putting players on the trade block.

It isn't delusional to hang on to a player you want to keep unless a team impresses you with an offer that a columnist might consider delusional, even if the columnist uses the term "slick-fielding" to describe Ramirez.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:44 PM
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I don't blame the Sox for demanding a high return on Alexei. The fact of the matter is the Sox don't have to trade him. Ask for a player(s) you want, and if you can't get that player, then don't do the deal.

I don't see any reason to trade a guy like Ramirez for some AA guy who will likely never help at the big-league level. What good would that do this organization? The Sox already have plenty of guys in the minors who can't play worth a damn. Why trade Ramirez or anyone else just for the sake of acquiring more of the same?
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cards press box View Post
I can't imagine that the Cardinals ever had any interest in dealing any of those guys last summer. But, if I recall correctly, there were rumors that the Sox had interest in Carlos Martinez. I could see the Sox trying to acquire him as either a future starter or closer. I wonder if the discussions that the Sox had in dealing Alexei Ramirez involved Martinez?
Carlos Martinez' name came out in the papers this past summer when the Alexei-to-Cardinals talk first surfaced.

Going back to the original post, and has been stated, the Cardinals did not necessarily claim the Sox were being delusional, nor do we have any evidence that the Sox were asking for Wacha or Rosenthal. That "delusional" statement came from the writer of the column, and it could have been just speculation. I wouldn't read too much into it.
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