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  #91  
Old 11-12-2013, 11:38 AM
35th and Shields 35th and Shields is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
I'm still trying to figure out how signing a catcher to ten million a year would disrupt the rebuilding process. It's not like we have any good catching prospects, but even if we did, between the 30-40 games the backup would get plus a .190 hitting DH who sucks even worse against lefties and should be benched as much as possible, there would still be plenty of at bats to go around. The Sox are not the Marlins. There's no reason they can't rebuild and add valuable parts at the same time.
Very true. Especially when you consider even the best farm systems in the league generate very few good MLB players. Combination of FA and system development is key.
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  #92  
Old 11-12-2013, 07:55 PM
#1swisher #1swisher is offline
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“I hope that Beckham or other players who have seen their names out there on an annual basis know that it’s just part of the business,” Hahn said. “Players get speculated about and names get bandied about sometimes when that’s not the reality in terms of what’s going on.”

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  #93  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:36 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Before the 2005 season, a Cubs fan in my office was hassling me about a White Sox trade rumor. It seems there was a source who had learned the White Sox were looking to deal one of their new acquisitions, free agent catcher A.J. Pierzynski.

There is so much out there with so little credibility that I don't believe players take trade rumors seriously.
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  #94  
Old 11-25-2013, 12:15 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98
The problem with signing a stopgap is who are you stopping the gap for? If the Sox had a catching prospect who appeared to be a year or two away from the big leagues, then, yes, you sign a stopgap. Do the Sox have that player? I'm not sure they do.

It comes down to whether the Sox are looking for a long-term solution at the position, and whether they think Salty is that solution. If they believe so, then pay the money and get him in here. If not, then they need to pursue other avenues. I think catcher is a position that needs to be addressed this offseason.
There is one other advantage that might present itself with signing a stopgap catcher to a 1-year deal, but it's kind of a risk. If the guy we sign puts up a nice first half, then a contender that needs a catcher at the trade deadline might give up something in a trade that could help accelerate the rebuild. If the guy we sign does nothing, then the return for him in a deadline deal will be minimal, and we wasted a half-season of starts that could have been used to develop a player who might fit into the long-term plans of the team.

Either way, though, it seems that something majorly catastrophic would need to happen for the catcher position to provide less value to the organization in 2014 than it did in 2013, where the only positive outcome was finding out that Tyler Flowers is not a capable major league catcher.
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  #95  
Old 11-25-2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
There is one other advantage that might present itself with signing a stopgap catcher to a 1-year deal, but it's kind of a risk. If the guy we sign puts up a nice first half, then a contender that needs a catcher at the trade deadline ...
The A's did that before they put together a winning team. They did that with Orlando Cabrera after his 2008 season with the White Sox. That was a down year for the A's, and everyone knew they were signing him to deal him to a contender midseason. When they traded him the Twins on July 31, 2009, they got minor league infielder Tyler Ladendorf in return.

Ladendorf was a second-round pick of the Twins in the June 2008 draft, so he had signed with the Twins only weeks earlier. Ladendorf is a six-year minor-leaguer who played a few games for AAA Sacramento last year. He also played a few games for Sacramento in 2011. He doesn't seem to have developed as a hitter.

If memory serves, Cabrera was having a pretty good season for the A's offensively and defensively when they traded him, and the Twins needed a shortstop. I recall Punto, Tolbert, Harris and Casilla playing shortstop for the Twins before Cabrera came to the team, and I think Cabrera, playing only in August and September led the team in innings at short. Still, all they gave up to fill a need in a tight divisional race was Ladendorf.

In general, I don't see teams giving up a lot at deadline to get players with only a couple of months left on their contracts even if it is to fill a need. I don't believe it's a gamble with a chance of much return. Maybe you can get more for a catcher because catchers do get hurt, and a contending team needs a catcher. But the fact that catchers can be banged up also contributes to the risk because the catcher you sign has a greater chance of getting hurt than other position players.
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  #96  
Old 11-25-2013, 05:20 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog
The A's did that before they put together a winning team. They did that with Orlando Cabrera after his 2008 season with the White Sox. That was a down year for the A's, and everyone knew they were signing him to deal him to a contender midseason. When they traded him the Twins on July 31, 2009, they got minor league infielder Tyler Ladendorf in return.
Who would have been Oakland's shortstop in 2009 had they not signed Cabrera? Did Cabrera needlessly take at-bats away from anybody that might have had a future as the A's shortstop? If he did, then of course the plan was bad, but if he didn't, then the A's made something out of nothing.

Ladendorf didn't work out for the A's, but I still like the idea behind the moves. The A's turned a position where they had absolutely no immediate plan, or future plan for that matter, into a 21 year-old prospect at the deadline. In a go-nowhere season, small organizational victories like this are the only positives that can realistically be expected.
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  #97  
Old 11-25-2013, 06:50 PM
soxfanreggie soxfanreggie is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Who would have been Oakland's shortstop in 2009 had they not signed Cabrera? Did Cabrera needlessly take at-bats away from anybody that might have had a future as the A's shortstop? If he did, then of course the plan was bad, but if he didn't, then the A's made something out of nothing.

Ladendorf didn't work out for the A's, but I still like the idea behind the moves. The A's turned a position where they had absolutely no immediate plan, or future plan for that matter, into a 21 year-old prospect at the deadline. In a go-nowhere season, small organizational victories like this are the only positives that can realistically be expected.
I think Phegley could use some more at-bats in the majors, but I think we know what we have with Flowers. Flowers could be a back-up here, but he isn't going to be a good or even decent starting catcher IMO. I don't know what Phegley is going to do, but I'd rather sign someone and decide on one of those two as a back-up or give Phegley the majority of ABs.
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  #98  
Old 11-25-2013, 07:05 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Originally Posted by soxfanreggie View Post
I think Phegley could use some more at-bats in the majors, but I think we know what we have with Flowers. Flowers could be a back-up here, but he isn't going to be a good or even decent starting catcher IMO. I don't know what Phegley is going to do, but I'd rather sign someone and decide on one of those two as a back-up or give Phegley the majority of ABs.
Regardless, both of them better be working their asses off on their D if they want to have any chance of sticking long-term.
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  #99  
Old 11-25-2013, 07:30 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Who would have been Oakland's shortstop in 2009 had they not signed Cabrera? Did Cabrera needlessly take at-bats away from anybody that might have had a future as the A's shortstop? If he did, then of course the plan was bad, but if he didn't, then the A's made something out of nothing.

Ladendorf didn't work out for the A's, but I still like the idea behind the moves. The A's turned a position where they had absolutely no immediate plan, or future plan for that matter, into a 21 year-old prospect at the deadline. In a go-nowhere season, small organizational victories like this are the only positives that can realistically be expected.
Without Cabrera, the A's would have gone with Cliff Pennington, who had been brought up at the end of 2008. As it turned out, he got another year in Sacramento, at least until the A's traded Cabrera.

Signing Cabrera was considered an idiotic move at the time by the Bay Area media. The Bay Area media also deemed the Ladendorf deal a salary dump the day of the trade. Part of the disbelief over the Cabrera situation from sign to trade was that the A's were crying poor. I doubt many A's fans even remember Ladendorf's name. Pennington is no longer with the A's as he was traded before the 2012 season, and he has developed into more of a utility infielder who plays a strong shortstop rather than an everyday shortstop.

Regardless, it wasn't considered a good move for a non-contending team at the time to sign a shortstop for $4 million to a one-year contract for the intention of trading him at the deadline. People who cover baseball pointed out at the time that players in the last year of their contract generally have very little trade value in July. There are exceptions, but Orlando Cabrera wasn't one of them, despite the Twins' need, and I don't see any free agent catchers this offseason who could be considered to be among them.
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