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View Poll Results: Who will the Sox trade first this off-season?
Quintana 3 4.41%
Santiago 13 19.12%
de Aza 12 17.65%
Alexei 14 20.59%
Beckham 15 22.06%
Dunn 5 7.35%
Viciedo 2 2.94%
Reed 8 11.76%
Reinzo 2 2.94%
Johnson 0 0%
OTHER - Specify 1 1.47%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

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  #16  
Old 11-20-2013, 02:22 PM
TDog TDog is online now
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Ramirez is getting long in the tooth and expensive. If they can shed salary and maybe get something cheap in return, I think that will make sense to the Sox.
Ramirez had an awful season, and I believed from the outset that not having a true backup shortstop was a major factor. Angel Sanchez ostensibly made the team because he would back up Ramirez, but he was injured early after only appearing at second base, replacing Beckham when he went down in the first road game of the season. Offensively, Ramirez wasn't so bad. His home runs were at a career low while his doubles were at a career high. He was striking out less, so I really don't have a problem with that. I don't believe the way he played shortstop in 2013 represented how well he can play shortstop. On a team where he doesn't have to play shortstop every day, which I truest the 2014 White Sox will be, I think he will be better defensively.

And with Abreu coming to the White Sox, I don't see the Sox getting rid of Ramirez unless the two clash. Abreu might even have a good effect on Ramirez. I'm hoping he has a good effect on both Ramirez and Viciedo.

I have always had the feeling that Santiago is destined to be the odd man out. He seems to have some potential as both a starter and a quality reliever, and throwing left handed enhances his value. There may be teams believing they can get more out of him than the White Sox are.

I don't think Reed or Jones are going anywhere. I don't believe the White Sox could get back for them what they were bring to the team. Dealing players is about improving your team. When Roland Hemand dealt players after the 1970 season, he made a lot of moves, some good moves, but if he hadn't traded Aparicio for Alvarado and Andrews, the White Sox might have had enough to beat out the A's in 1972 two years after being the worst team in baseball.

It looks like the White Sox did that in trading Peavy, which surprised me. The only other starter I could see being dealt would be Santiago. I don't believe trading any of the other starters (unless they get back pitching which would be a surprise) would add more than it would subtract. And unless you are going to go longer with your starting rotation, I don't see the Sox getting better by trading Reed or Jones.
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  #17  
Old 11-20-2013, 02:22 PM
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Chez Chez is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
1. Alexei
2. Reed
3. Santiago
4. Viciedo
5. Keppinger

9 million and two - Dunn.
There is no market for Keppinger. You probably couldn't give him away. Possibly the worst player in the AL last season. We are stuck with him
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  #18  
Old 11-20-2013, 03:09 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Ramirez had an awful season, and I believed from the outset that not having a true backup shortstop was a major factor. Angel Sanchez ostensibly made the team because he would back up Ramirez, but he was injured early after only appearing at second base, replacing Beckham when he went down in the first road game of the season. Offensively, Ramirez wasn't so bad. His home runs were at a career low while his doubles were at a career high. He was striking out less, so I really don't have a problem with that. I don't believe the way he played shortstop in 2013 represented how well he can play shortstop. On a team where he doesn't have to play shortstop every day, which I truest the 2014 White Sox will be, I think he will be better defensively.

And with Abreu coming to the White Sox, I don't see the Sox getting rid of Ramirez unless the two clash. Abreu might even have a good effect on Ramirez. I'm hoping he has a good effect on both Ramirez and Viciedo.

I have always had the feeling that Santiago is destined to be the odd man out. He seems to have some potential as both a starter and a quality reliever, and throwing left handed enhances his value. There may be teams believing they can get more out of him than the White Sox are.

I don't think Reed or Jones are going anywhere. I don't believe the White Sox could get back for them what they were bring to the team. Dealing players is about improving your team. When Roland Hemand dealt players after the 1970 season, he made a lot of moves, some good moves, but if he hadn't traded Aparicio for Alvarado and Andrews, the White Sox might have had enough to beat out the A's in 1972 two years after being the worst team in baseball.

It looks like the White Sox did that in trading Peavy, which surprised me. The only other starter I could see being dealt would be Santiago. I don't believe trading any of the other starters (unless they get back pitching which would be a surprise) would add more than it would subtract. And unless you are going to go longer with your starting rotation, I don't see the Sox getting better by trading Reed or Jones.
The reason stated about keeping Ramirez because of Abreu did occur to me and may be a reason to keep him but conversely it could be a reason to get rid of him. Not all countrymen get along.

I like you think about past history of Sox moves and am aware of the Looie trade in 70. I doubt the current Sox management are aware of these moves from years ago or use them in factoring their current moves.

Ramirez is at least 32, his best days are behind him and his biggest pay days are the next 2 years. Also I really dont think Ramirez will be a factor in the Sox gaining competitiveness. That will be down the line, not anytime soon.
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  #19  
Old 11-20-2013, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
The reason stated about keeping Ramirez because of Abreu did occur to me and may be a reason to keep him but conversely it could be a reason to get rid of him. Not all countrymen get along.

I like you think about past history of Sox moves and am aware of the Looie trade in 70. I doubt the current Sox management are aware of these moves from years ago or use them in factoring their current moves.

Ramirez is at least 32, his best days are behind him and his biggest pay days are the next 2 years. Also I really dont think Ramirez will be a factor in the Sox gaining competitiveness. That will be down the line, not anytime soon.
If there is a personality class between Abreu and Ramirez, obviously Ramirez is going to go. Abreu signed for the money, but he also signed knowing Ramirez was on the team. Ramirez and Abreu have some unique common background, that you wouldn't necessarily have among two players from Puerto Rico or Venezuela because the Cuba situation is so unique.

My reference to Roland Hemond wasn't meant to imply that the current front office should be learn specifically from the successes and failures of White Sox past, the way the strategy of previous military battles are studied at West Point. It was directed more at fans understanding front office objectives. It's a basic concept that if you are trading players, you do so to improve your team. It isn't a matter of throwing a bunch of deals against a metaphorical wall to see what sticks.
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  #20  
Old 11-20-2013, 06:18 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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GMs watch baseball too. Their scouts ain't fooled by De Aza's numbers either.

I'm going to say that Hahn manages to shock to world and unload Dunn's contract on some team after they miss out on another big bat.
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  #21  
Old 11-20-2013, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
De Aza only made $2.075M last year, and with the known deficiencies in his game, won't get that big of a raise in his second arbitration year.


IMO, Viciedo can get us back tons more in trade (teams will pay for power potential, which is rare in this year's FA market) than De Aza and the Sox have better/cheaper options to replace Viciedo than they would with De Aza. Plus LF would be a great place to stash a lesser fielding player who can hit for average/OBP.
That De Aza makes so little, can hit leadoff in a leadoff-short market may be the reason he brings premium value. But agree, if he doesn't, keep him on the team but out of center field.
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  #22  
Old 11-20-2013, 07:42 PM
sullythered sullythered is offline
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Originally Posted by mzh View Post
GMs watch baseball too. Their scouts ain't fooled by De Aza's numbers either.

I'm going to say that Hahn manages to shock to world and unload Dunn's contract on some team after they miss out on another big bat.
GM's get fooled by numbers all the time.
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  #23  
Old 11-20-2013, 10:33 PM
mcp5185 mcp5185 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
The reason stated about keeping Ramirez because of Abreu did occur to me and may be a reason to keep him but conversely it could be a reason to get rid of him. Not all countrymen get along.

I like you think about past history of Sox moves and am aware of the Looie trade in 70. I doubt the current Sox management are aware of these moves from years ago or use them in factoring their current moves.

Ramirez is at least 32, his best days are behind him and his biggest pay days are the next 2 years. Also I really dont think Ramirez will be a factor in the Sox gaining competitiveness. That will be down the line, not anytime soon.
A couple weekends ago I heard an interview with Hahn on 670. He said the team used Ramirez to reach out to Abreu, because he and Ramirez had been teammates at one time in Cuba. Hahn also said he expects Ramirez to help Abreu with his adjustment to the Majors. I don't think Alexei is untouchable, but I find it highly likely he'll be here until at least the trading deadline to help Abreu.
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  #24  
Old 11-20-2013, 10:38 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by mcp5185 View Post
A couple weekends ago I heard an interview with Hahn on 670. He said the team used Ramirez to reach out to Abreu, because he and Ramirez had been teammates at one time in Cuba. Hahn also said he expects Ramirez to help Abreu with his adjustment to the Majors. I don't think Alexei is untouchable, but I find it highly likely he'll be here until at least the trading deadline to help Abreu.
I didnt know all of that and if thats the case then Ramirez will have to stay.
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  #25  
Old 11-21-2013, 01:07 PM
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As boneheaded as Alexei can be it really doesn't make sense to trade him unless there is a viable option as a replacement.
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  #26  
Old 11-27-2013, 06:08 PM
oldcomiskey oldcomiskey is offline
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[QUOTE=TDog;3094783]
When Roland Hemand dealt players after the 1970 season, he made a lot of moves, some good moves, but if he hadn't traded Aparicio for Alvarado and Andrews, the White Sox might have had enough to beat out the A's in 1972 two years after being the worst team in baseball.

if Melton doesnt fall off that ladder......
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  #27  
Old 11-30-2013, 04:45 PM
Danryan Danryan is offline
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Read that the Padres are looking for left handed hitters. Maybe they could use Adam Dunn. I would take low level prospect and eat some money.
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  #28  
Old 12-01-2013, 10:35 AM
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Read that the Padres are looking for left handed hitters. Maybe they could use Adam Dunn. I would take low level prospect and eat some money.
Why??? If you can get a good player in return that makes sense. But to eat some money(say $8Mil) and get a low level prospect is a waste. Hopefully Dunn is not blocking a young player's progress. Next year his bat in the lineup should help the development of the young players, Abreu and/or Garcia see better pitches. Now if Abreu is so bad defensively that he needs to be a full time DH then your idea makes sense. Otherwise you are better holding on to Dunn and maybe at the trading deadline he brings back a good prospect from a team in the pennant race
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  #29  
Old 12-02-2013, 03:54 PM
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Why would I eat some of Dunn's contract? Simply because he is a demoralizing bat in the lineup, and it is time to move on.
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  #30  
Old 12-02-2013, 04:08 PM
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Why would I eat some of Dunn's contract? Simply because he is a demoralizing bat in the lineup, and it is time to move on.
He was asking why you'd trade Dunn for crap at this point. Yeah, he's expensive, but that money isn't holding us back at all, and he isn't blocking a better prospect. And despite how "demoralizing" he is, he hit twice as many HR as the next closest teammate, and drove in 24 more runs than the next closest (both are De Aza, which is pretty damning in itself). It's the entire lineup that's demoralizing. Trading your best hitter because it'd make some fan feel better about him not being around anymore is idiotic.
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