White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
Congratulations on the Rookie records for HR and RBI in April, Jose!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-14-2014, 04:17 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Antioch, IL
Posts: 5,465
Default Is Tyler Flowers the Worst White Sox Starting Catcher of the Modern Era?

I think Flowers may be the worst starting catcher of the modern era for the White Sox- I took a look at some of the seasons of some of the other "bad" catchers we've had (Ben Davis, Mark Johnson, Bruce Kimm, etc.)- but just quickly scanning their stats vs. the stats of those catchers- I think Tyler "wins the prize"- and his first half stats include a very strong April- so his full season stats could get even worse. Starting in April- his batting average by month: .354, 208, .129, .091-

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/pos.shtml
__________________
TomBradley72
http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/334c0314
2014 Record: 2-3
2005-2013 Record: 49-38
MLB Parks Visited: 24, MiLB Parks Visited: 11
"When I heard the National Anthem it hit me," Jose Abreu said through White Sox spokesperson Lou Hernandez. "I love the Anthem. When I learn English Iím going to sing it."

Last edited by TomBradley72; 07-14-2014 at 05:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-14-2014, 04:30 PM
SOXSINCE'70 SOXSINCE'70 is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: DEERFIELD
Posts: 4,975
Post

Has no one heard of Ron Karkovice?

Great defensively,could not hit his weight.
__________________
White Sox baseball - JUST WIN,BABY!!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-14-2014, 04:33 PM
Maximo Maximo is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dowagiac,Michigan
Posts: 503
Default

I remember "Officer" Karkovice.

Miguel Olivo deserves some strong consideration, as well.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-14-2014, 04:38 PM
jdm2662 jdm2662 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Lombard, IL
Posts: 7,786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOXSINCE'70 View Post
Has no one heard of Ron Karkovice?

Great defensively,could not hit his weight.
That's the difference. Karko was a very good catcher. Flowers is much worse hitter, and he's a terrible catcher to boot.
__________________
4-time WSI NFL Pick 'em vs Spread Champion
2009 2010 2011 2013
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-14-2014, 04:40 PM
waldo_the_wolf waldo_the_wolf is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 349
Default

Exactly, Karko was superb defensively, Olivo had a cannon for a throwing arm, A.J. couldn't throw out runners but he hit well. Meanwhile Flowers can't hit, throw, catch the ball, anything, so my answer to the thread question is yes.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-14-2014, 04:41 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Deep in the heart of Dixie
Posts: 4,349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2662 View Post
That's the difference. Karko was a very good catcher. Flowers is much worse hitter, and he's a terrible catcher to boot.
Exactly. I'd take Karkovice over Flowers without a doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-14-2014, 04:47 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 12,848
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Throwing out runners is the one thing that Flowers does reasonably well.
I'd like to see him improve his ball-catching skills or at least blocking skills.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-14-2014, 04:51 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sebring Florida
Posts: 7,797
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
Exactly. I'd take Karkovice over Flowers without a doubt.
Not even a contest, Karko wins hands down.
__________________
Coming up to bat for our White Sox is the Mighty Mite, Nelson Fox.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-14-2014, 04:52 PM
ChiSoxFann ChiSoxFann is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Chicago Ridge
Posts: 478
Default

I remember hating Mark Johnson a lot in the early 2000s, but he was only a backup. And yes, Tyler Flowers is awful. I was willing to cut him some slack with his injury last year, but he seems worse when healthy.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-14-2014, 04:56 PM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 16,091
Default

Karkovice was a first-round draft pick. He was actually a pretty good catcher on some pretty good teams, although not a big offensive threat. The Angels announcers used to talk about him being an Angels killer, and he hit a couple of home runs in games I attended in Anaheim. He never lived up to his offensive promise, though. When he was coming up, he was supposed to replace Fisk behind the plate, sending Fisk to left, but that didn't work out. I recall reading that putting Fisk in left to make room for Karkovice was the idea of GM Ken Harrelson.

Offensively, Flowers is better than Chuck Brinkman, who was simply a very weak hitter but a good defensive catcher after Ed Herrmann left. Brinkman hit one major league home run, surrendered by Rudy May. J.C. Martin was as bad in 1967 as he was an announcer in the 1970s, but pretty much all the hitters on the 1967 White Sox were bad.

I had a friend back in late 1970s who believed Bill Nahorodny was the worst regular catcher in White Sox history. My friend believed that Nahorodny (who the Sox picked up off of waivers from the Phillies organization) was so bad because it was so painful to hear Harry Caray say the White Sox pitcher was looking into Nahorodny for the sign, not because he hit less than .240 in 1978. The White Sox eventually traded him to the Braves who years later returned the favor with Flowers.

Flowers is certainly no Posey, but he probably isn't the worst regular catcher in White Sox history.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-14-2014, 05:00 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Deep in the heart of Dixie
Posts: 4,349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Karkovice was a first-round draft pick. He was actually a pretty good catcher on some pretty good teams, although not a big offensive threat. The Angels announcers used to talk about him being an Angels killer, and he hit a couple of home runs in games I attended in Anaheim. He never lived up to his offensive promise, though. When he was coming up, he was supposed to replace Fisk behind the plate, sending Fisk to left, but that didn't work out. I recall reading that putting Fisk in left to make room for Karkovice was the idea of GM Ken Harrelson.

Offensively, Flowers is better than Chuck Brinkman, who was simply a very weak hitter but a good defensive catcher after Ed Herrmann left. Brinkman hit one major league home run, surrendered by Rudy May. J.C. Martin was as bad in 1967 as he was an announcer in the 1970s, but pretty much all the hitters on the 1967 White Sox were bad.

I had a friend back in late 1970s who believed Bill Nahorodny was the worst regular catcher in White Sox history. My friend believed that Nahorodny (who the Sox picked up off of waivers from the Phillies organization) was so bad because it was so painful to hear Harry Caray say the White Sox pitcher was looking into Nahorodny for the sign, not because he hit less than .240 in 1978. The White Sox eventually traded him to the Braves who years later returned the favor with Flowers.

Flowers is certainly no Posey, but he probably isn't the worst regular catcher in White Sox history.
I used to love to hear Caray say "Nahaorodny". By the way, I'd take him over Flowers too.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-14-2014, 05:03 PM
waldo_the_wolf waldo_the_wolf is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
When he was coming up, he was supposed to replace Fisk behind the plate, sending Fisk to left, but that didn't work out. I recall reading that putting Fisk in left to make room for Karkovice was the idea of GM Ken Harrelson
Wasn't that Joel Skinner? I thought he was the catcher that Hawk was so enamored with and thought would be a huge star for the Sox.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-14-2014, 05:09 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Deep in the heart of Dixie
Posts: 4,349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waldo_the_wolf View Post
Wasn't that Joel Skinner? I thought he was the catcher that Hawk was so enamored with and thought would be a huge star for the Sox.
Someone here will correct me if I'm wrong I'm sure but didn't Fisk spend some time in the outfield so Skinner could be the catcher. Wasn't that a Hawk as GM brainstorm?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-14-2014, 05:30 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sebring Florida
Posts: 7,797
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
Someone here will correct me if I'm wrong I'm sure but didn't Fisk spend some time in the outfield so Skinner could be the catcher. Wasn't that a Hawk as GM brainstorm?
Yes Fisk did spend some time in LF in Hawk's one year reign as GM. I have one better, the Yankees had Yogi Berra in LF for awhile. Google Mazerowski's walk off HR in game 7 of the 1960 WS and you will get a nice video of Yogi watching the ball sail over the wall.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-14-2014, 05:52 PM
Brian26's Avatar
Brian26 Brian26 is offline
WSI Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Chicago
Posts: 29,202
Blog Entries: 52
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
Someone here will correct me if I'm wrong I'm sure but didn't Fisk spend some time in the outfield so Skinner could be the catcher. Wasn't that a Hawk as GM brainstorm?
This is correct. The move was designed to save Fisk's knees and make room for Skinner.
__________________


2014 Attendance Record: 3-3, 0.500
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:05 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.