White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
WOOT! BASEBALL! GO SOX!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-07-2016, 09:43 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,908
Default Mat Latos, Top 20 MLB Starting Pitcher

I've seen quite a few posts indicating some fans don't seem to realize how good Mat Latos actually is. Fact is, the only thing going against him is that he got roughed up in six starts last year while coming back from his knee injury. In reality Latos is a top 20 MLB starting pitcher, provided his knee holds up. Considering he has the best in the business in the indubitable Herm Schneider taking care of him, there's probably reason to be hopeful.

Let's look at his record:

2015, overall results were poor no doubt. 4.95 ERA never looks good. But we're talking about 21 starts. 14 of those starts he still gave up three or less runs. In 11 he gave up two or less, and six he gave up one or less runs. Six bad starts out of an otherwise stellar career spanning 174 starts.

Despite having been roughed up six times, Latos managed a 3.72 FIP. For comparison, Rodon's was 3.87. Rodon was the only Sox pitcher whose ERA was better than his FIP. Latos's walk, strikeout, and home run rates were similar to his career norms, which are all fairly exceptional. The main difference was he gave up considerably more hits than normal.

Now how can I say top 20 pitcher. Let's look at his rankings among active pitchers:

H/9 9th
WHIP 11th
HR/9 16th
K/BB 16th
K/9 18th
FIP 10th
ERA 14th

As you can see if you've watched him pitch, Latos doesn't have the most overpowering stuff in the world. A real nice curveball, but he isn't exactly blowing guys away. I've seen him pitch quite a few times because we get Reds games where I live and one of my best friends is a Reds fan. The man knows how to pitch, plain and simple. Six bum starts while having trouble with knee doesn't change the fact. His arm is fine, and this isn't some freak Danks injury where it's miraculous he can even pitch. Latos could arguably be our number two starter, provided they keep his knee in order.
__________________
Is there not a sort of bloodshed when the conscience is wounded? Through this wound a man's real manhood and immortality flow out, and he bleeds to an everlasting death. I see this blood flowing now...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-07-2016, 10:07 PM
soxfanreggie soxfanreggie is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Normal, IL/Sarasota, FL
Posts: 11,357
Default

Even if he's the best 4th starter in all of baseball, that's great for us. I think a lot of teams passed on better deals considering his injury and his potential chemistry issues. Get alon with others and throw decent and we got one heck of a deal.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-07-2016, 10:08 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 6,100
Default

Let's not get too excited over one start. Lots of guys used to be elite pitchers who can't get outs anymore.
__________________
"Hope...may be indulged in by those who have abundant resources...but its nature is to be extravagant, and those who go so far as to stake their all upon the venture see it in its true colors only when they are ruined."
-- Thucydides
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-07-2016, 10:12 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Let's not get too excited over one start. Lots of guys used to be elite pitchers who can't get outs anymore.
Did you even read my post? I was talking about 174 starts including the starts he made last year. There's nothing wrong with his arm. Last season his K, BB, and HR rates were typical. He only allowed more hits. If FIP is valid, that would indicate poor defense had a lot to do with that. If he weren't able to get outs, I don't think he'd allow 1 run or less in almost 30% of his starts.

By the way I don't appreciate suggestions on what to get excited about, either. I'll take care of that myself, thank you very much. You just worry your little head on your own little head. But since you are apparently so worried about my mental state, for the record, I was already excited about Latos before this start was made. Just have been perplexed by posts that indicate people don't seem to appreciate the caliber of pitcher that Latos is.

Last edited by TheVulture; 04-07-2016 at 10:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-07-2016, 10:38 PM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Geneva, IL
Posts: 15,645
Default

Latos was a top pitcher when he was throwing in the mid 90s. His velocity is down, so he's far different. That certainly doesn't mean he can't be a serviceable 4th starter. Today was good, but it was against the A's. Having said that, I still really like our rotation this year. If Fulmer can reach his potential, I'm ecstatic to think what it will look like in a year. And then there's Spencer Adams . . .
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-07-2016, 10:52 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
WSI Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chubbuck, Idaho
Posts: 28,585
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
I've seen quite a few posts indicating some fans don't seem to realize how good Mat Latos actually is. Fact is, the only thing going against him is that he got roughed up in six starts last year while coming back from his knee injury. In reality Latos is a top 20 MLB starting pitcher, provided his knee holds up. Considering he has the best in the business in the indubitable Herm Schneider taking care of him, there's probably reason to be hopeful.

Let's look at his record:

2015, overall results were poor no doubt. 4.95 ERA never looks good. But we're talking about 21 starts. 14 of those starts he still gave up three or less runs. In 11 he gave up two or less, and six he gave up one or less runs. Six bad starts out of an otherwise stellar career spanning 174 starts.

Despite having been roughed up six times, Latos managed a 3.72 FIP. For comparison, Rodon's was 3.87. Rodon was the only Sox pitcher whose ERA was better than his FIP. Latos's walk, strikeout, and home run rates were similar to his career norms, which are all fairly exceptional. The main difference was he gave up considerably more hits than normal.

Now how can I say top 20 pitcher. Let's look at his rankings among active pitchers:

H/9 9th
WHIP 11th
HR/9 16th
K/BB 16th
K/9 18th
FIP 10th
ERA 14th

As you can see if you've watched him pitch, Latos doesn't have the most overpowering stuff in the world. A real nice curveball, but he isn't exactly blowing guys away. I've seen him pitch quite a few times because we get Reds games where I live and one of my best friends is a Reds fan. The man knows how to pitch, plain and simple. Six bum starts while having trouble with knee doesn't change the fact. His arm is fine, and this isn't some freak Danks injury where it's miraculous he can even pitch. Latos could arguably be our number two starter, provided they keep his knee in order.
When healthy he is a very, VERY good starting pitcher. The issue has been the fact that he hasn't been healthy the past few years.

If he can stay healthy he can really help the Sox, maybe Herm being the trainer can have a major impact in that.

Lip
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-07-2016, 11:23 PM
thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lombard
Posts: 24,830
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
When healthy he is a very, VERY good starting pitcher. The issue has been the fact that he hasn't been healthy the past few years.

If he can stay healthy he can really help the Sox, maybe Herm being the trainer can have a major impact in that.

Lip
I agree with the sentiments others have expressed here that if we can keep his workload reasonable and not allow opponents to get a good look at him the third or fourth time around, he'll fit nicely at the back end of the rotation. True, he might not have the breakout season Garland had in '05, but if he does just enough, we'll have four very good starting pitchers, maybe even five if Danks can be adequate.

I'm very excited by the rotation in general this year and today's outing only furthered my expectations. We just have to see if the bullpen can keep up with it.
__________________
Consistency wanted
Regular winning now being accepted at 333 W. 35th Street, Chicago
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-07-2016, 11:37 PM
Rocky Soprano Rocky Soprano is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Munster, IN
Posts: 8,898
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Let's not get too excited over one start. Lots of guys used to be elite pitchers who can't get outs anymore.
How about we don't start being a dark cloud over one good start.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-09-2016, 05:13 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
When healthy he is a very, VERY good starting pitcher. The issue has been the fact that he hasn't been healthy the past few years.
Few years? He was fine for half of 2014 until his season ended with knee injury. His only struggles were last year, and as I pointed out he was still effective in more than seventy percent of his starts. His FIP last year would have still ranked him 38th in MLB as well; he wasn't as bad as his ERA over those 21 starts makes it look. I don't know how 21 starts in one season is conflated to past few years. Did you notice the last five entries on his stat line were all from last year? Try hitting 'hide partial' in baseball reference and have another look at his numbers.

And I'd say Herm deserves total faith in his abilities. If Latos weren't healthy, he wouldn't be out there IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-10-2016, 10:46 AM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Des Plaines
Posts: 2,228
Default

Good stats OP, didn't even realize that. Had the thought he was hurt more than he really was recently. He is only 28 years old.

If there is one thing the White Sox do better than everyone else, it is keeping pitchers healthy.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:19 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.