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  #1  
Old 02-27-2014, 05:14 AM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Default My All-time Whitesox Hall of Fame snub team

C. Sherm Lollar....nine time all-star and three gold gloves. big part of some of the best Sox teams in history.
1B. Paul Konerko....He'll be the new Gil hodges when he retires.
2B. Jimmy Dykes....strong playing and managing career which spanned from 1918-1961.
SS. Buck Weaver....was on his way to a hall of Fame career until he was railroaded from the Blacksox scandal.
3B. Robin Ventura....55.8 career war in 16 seasons is better than several other Hall of fame thirdbasemen.
OF. Minnie Minoso.....It's ridiculous that he's not in.
OF. Shoeless Joe Jackson....same as Buck Weaver.
OF. Tim Raines.....He will make it someday.
DH. Harold Baines...If only 1981 and 1994/1995 never happened, I think he would have gotten his 3000 hits.
UT. Dick Allen...solid numbers for Hall of Fame.

SP1. Billy Pierce......top 5 pitcher for his generation, I think he'll eventually get in though.
SP2. Tommy John...has a good case
SP3. Jim Kaat....likewise
SP4. Mark Buehrle....will be over looked but he has a nice resume which is better than many Hall of Fame pitchers already in.
SP5. Eddie Cicotte....Well I look at him differently with Weaver and Jackson but he did have a Hall of Fame career.

Last edited by chicagowhitesox1; 02-27-2014 at 05:33 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-27-2014, 10:49 AM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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The only ones on that list that I think belong in are Raines, Jackson and Minoso.
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  #3  
Old 02-27-2014, 12:58 PM
BRDSR BRDSR is offline
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Interesting list, wel thought out. But I agree with DS...objectively not many are HOFers. But fun to think about all the same.
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:12 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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yeah I agree, I was kinda bored when I made the list. Although I doubt there is another team with so many borderline players who you could make an argument for. Maybe the Yankees.

off the top of my head....
C. Thurman Munson
1B. Don Mattingley
2B. Willie Randolph
SS. nobody I can think of
3B. Craig Nettles
OF. Charlie Keller
OF. Bernie Williams
OF. Roger Maris

SP1. Roger Clemens
SP2. David Cone
SP3. Mike Mussina
SP4. Ron Guidry
SP5. Carl Mays??
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  #5  
Old 02-27-2014, 01:26 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
The only ones on that list that I think belong in are Raines, Jackson and Minoso.
Pierce should be in.
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  #6  
Old 02-27-2014, 01:35 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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The Tigers have some good ones too.
C. Lance parrish
1B. Norm Cash
2B. Lou Whitaker
SS. Alan Trammell
3B. Darrell Evans
OF. Bobby Veach
OF. Rocky Colavito
OF. Rusty Staub

SP1. Jack Morris
SP2. Tommy Bridges
SP3. Mickey Lolich
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  #7  
Old 02-27-2014, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
The only ones on that list that I think belong in are Raines, Jackson and Minoso.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Pierce should be in.
I agree on these four. And it is ridiculous that Minoso is not in.
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2014, 05:12 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Great players, great list.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:59 AM
Bucky F. Dent Bucky F. Dent is offline
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Minoso should be in the hall. The organization needs to make a concerted effort to have this happen!
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:35 AM
Railsplitter Railsplitter is offline
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Just because underserving players like Ron Santo and Bert Blyleven are enshrined in Cooperstown, that doesn't the equally underserving players listed in this thread should be.

Dick Allen and Billy Pierce the only ones who are deserving.
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:43 AM
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Just because underserving players like Ron Santo and Bert Blyleven are enshrined in Cooperstown, that doesn't the equally underserving players listed in this thread should be.

Dick Allen and Billy Pierce the only ones who are deserving.
Jackson, Raines, and Minoso, in that order, have better cases than Pierce and Allen. Allen in particular did not perform at an elite level often enough to warrant being put ahead of the first three. And Raines not deserving? Seriously?!
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:46 PM
BubblingCalderon BubblingCalderon is offline
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I'm extremely passionate about Billy Peirce belonging in the hall of fame. Someone wrote a very good argument about his case for wikipedia I posted it below...

So far, Pierce has been overlooked for election to the National Baseball Hall of Fame. His considerable credentials are comparable to many of the pitchers enshrined in Cooperstown. When he became eligible in 1970, the Baseball Writers Association of America had elected only eight new members in 13 years with Pierce being stuck in the voting behind such pitchers as Early Wynn, Bob Lemon, and Hal Newhouser (each of whom was eventually elected). In the next few years, other pitching stars such as Sandy Koufax, Robin Roberts, Warren Spahn, and Whitey Ford became eligible and likely drew votes away from Pierce. Pierce was dropped from the ballot after 1974. In discussing various criticisms of BBWAA voting over the years, Baseball Digest editor John Kuenster wrote in 2008, "The dissenters wonder, for example, how the writers can elect pitchers Whitey Ford (236106), Jim Bunning (224184) and Don Drysdale (209166) to the hall of fame, while barely giving any recognition to Billy Pierce (211169)".
In the five years he was on the hall of fame ballot (19701974), Pierce never drew more than two percent of the votes cast. His record compiled mostly with undistinguished White Sox teams deserved much more respect from the voters. In one-on-one competition, he actually beat Ford more times than Ford beat him, even though Whitey was backed up by stronger teams."[94] (Bunning was actually elected by the Veterans Committee in 1996, although he did far better in BBWAA balloting than Pierce, coming within four votes of election in 1988). Pierce is the only one of the top ten left-handers in career strikeouts at the time of his retirement, that has not been elected to the hall of fame:
Left-hander Strikeouts Warren Spahn 2,493 Rube Waddell 2,316 Lefty Grove 2,266 Eddie Plank 2,246 Billy Pierce 1,999 Hal Newhouser 1,796 Whitey Ford 1,730 Sandy Koufax 1,697 Carl Hubbell 1,677 Rube Marquard 1,593 Pierce's average of 5.62 strikeouts per 9 innings pitched during the 1950s was the highest by any pitcher with at least 1,000 innings in the decade, with his average of 7.96 hits per nine innings ranking third (behind Ford and Wynn) and his 3.06 ERA also ranking third (behind Ford and Spahn). His final strikeout total ranked 15th among all pitchers when he retired; of the 24 pitchers who had at least 1,750 strikeouts at that time, Bobo Newsom and Tony Mullane are the only others who have not been elected to the Hall.
When comparing Pierce with the 13 left-handers in the Hall (the above nine as well as Herb Pennock, Eppa Rixey, Lefty Gomez and Steve Carlton), he consistently stands in the middle of the group, ranking ninth in wins, seventh in strikeouts, games pitched, starts and shutouts, and eighth in innings.
Pierce's seven All-Star selections tie him for the most among eligible pitchers not in the Hall, along with Lee Smith and Dave Stieb; Vida Blue and Jack Morris are the only other eligible pitchers to have started three All-Star Games. Over his three All-Star starts (each lasting three innings), Pierce allowed only one run and four hits in nine innings; his career All-Star record included a 3.38 ERA with 12 strikeouts in 10⅔ innings. Pierce and Blue are also the only eligible pitchers who have won 200 games and been named Pitcher of the Year by The Sporting News more than once.
Pierce had a record of 2424 in 54 career regular-season starts against Hall of Famers: 77 vs. Whitey Ford,[95] 47 vs. Early Wynn, 73 vs. Bob Lemon, 23 vs. Bob Feller, 11 vs. Hal Newhouser, 02 vs. Jim Bunning, 10 vs. Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax and Hoyt Wilhelm, and 01 vs. Satchel Paige. (Pierce had no decision in his lone start against Warren Spahn; he also earned no decision in two All-Star starts against Robin Roberts.)[2]
Pierce struck out ten or more batters eleven times in his career,[2] and achieved his career high of 12 strikeouts four times; but due to characteristically low run support, he won only one of those four games, a 50 three-hit shutout of Kansas City on September 25, 1955 in which he recorded his 1,000th career strikeout.[96] He also recorded 12 strikeouts in a 42, 12-inning loss to the Philadelphia Athletics on July 24, 1953,[97] in a 10-inning scoreless tie against the Tigers on May 9, 1954,[98] and in a 31 loss at Baltimore on May 23, 1961 in which he pitched only six innings.[99] In 22 career starts in which he pitched into extra innings, Pierce had a record of 811 despite a 1.85 ERA. In his 41 complete-game losses (10 of which were against the Yankees), he compiled a 2.67 ERA with 231 strikeouts in 368 innings, a rate slightly higher than his career average.[2]
He was also a highly effective pitcher when used in a relief role, recording 32 career saves (possibly 34)[100] compared to only 9 blown saves, a success rate of nearly 80%. In his 14 career wins in relief (none of which resulted from a blown save), he averaged 3⅓ innings pitched and a 0.77 ERA.[2]
Using MVP voting results, historical surveys and sabermetric analysis, historian Bill Deane projected in 1989 that Pierce would have won the American League Cy Young Award in 1953 and 1956 if it had been given at the time;[101] the award was not created until 1956 (when the National League's Don Newcombe won the award by unanimous vote), and awards were not given for both leagues until 1967. In 1988, baseball historian and statistician Bill James chose Pierce as having had the tenth greatest career value among left-handers, ahead of six Hall of Famers.
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:22 PM
ricker182 ricker182 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubblingCalderon View Post
I'm extremely passionate about Billy Peirce belonging in the hall of fame. Someone wrote a very good argument about his case for wikipedia I posted it below...

So far, Pierce has been overlooked for election to the National Baseball Hall of Fame. His considerable credentials are comparable to many of the pitchers enshrined in Cooperstown. When he became eligible in 1970, the Baseball Writers Association of America had elected only eight new members in 13 years with Pierce being stuck in the voting behind such pitchers as Early Wynn, Bob Lemon, and Hal Newhouser (each of whom was eventually elected). In the next few years, other pitching stars such as Sandy Koufax, Robin Roberts, Warren Spahn, and Whitey Ford became eligible and likely drew votes away from Pierce. Pierce was dropped from the ballot after 1974. In discussing various criticisms of BBWAA voting over the years, Baseball Digest editor John Kuenster wrote in 2008, "The dissenters wonder, for example, how the writers can elect pitchers Whitey Ford (236106), Jim Bunning (224184) and Don Drysdale (209166) to the hall of fame, while barely giving any recognition to Billy Pierce (211169)".
In the five years he was on the hall of fame ballot (19701974), Pierce never drew more than two percent of the votes cast. His record compiled mostly with undistinguished White Sox teams deserved much more respect from the voters. In one-on-one competition, he actually beat Ford more times than Ford beat him, even though Whitey was backed up by stronger teams."[94] (Bunning was actually elected by the Veterans Committee in 1996, although he did far better in BBWAA balloting than Pierce, coming within four votes of election in 1988). Pierce is the only one of the top ten left-handers in career strikeouts at the time of his retirement, that has not been elected to the hall of fame:
Left-hander Strikeouts Warren Spahn 2,493 Rube Waddell 2,316 Lefty Grove 2,266 Eddie Plank 2,246 Billy Pierce 1,999 Hal Newhouser 1,796 Whitey Ford 1,730 Sandy Koufax 1,697 Carl Hubbell 1,677 Rube Marquard 1,593 Pierce's average of 5.62 strikeouts per 9 innings pitched during the 1950s was the highest by any pitcher with at least 1,000 innings in the decade, with his average of 7.96 hits per nine innings ranking third (behind Ford and Wynn) and his 3.06 ERA also ranking third (behind Ford and Spahn). His final strikeout total ranked 15th among all pitchers when he retired; of the 24 pitchers who had at least 1,750 strikeouts at that time, Bobo Newsom and Tony Mullane are the only others who have not been elected to the Hall.
When comparing Pierce with the 13 left-handers in the Hall (the above nine as well as Herb Pennock, Eppa Rixey, Lefty Gomez and Steve Carlton), he consistently stands in the middle of the group, ranking ninth in wins, seventh in strikeouts, games pitched, starts and shutouts, and eighth in innings.
Pierce's seven All-Star selections tie him for the most among eligible pitchers not in the Hall, along with Lee Smith and Dave Stieb; Vida Blue and Jack Morris are the only other eligible pitchers to have started three All-Star Games. Over his three All-Star starts (each lasting three innings), Pierce allowed only one run and four hits in nine innings; his career All-Star record included a 3.38 ERA with 12 strikeouts in 10⅔ innings. Pierce and Blue are also the only eligible pitchers who have won 200 games and been named Pitcher of the Year by The Sporting News more than once.
Pierce had a record of 2424 in 54 career regular-season starts against Hall of Famers: 77 vs. Whitey Ford,[95] 47 vs. Early Wynn, 73 vs. Bob Lemon, 23 vs. Bob Feller, 11 vs. Hal Newhouser, 02 vs. Jim Bunning, 10 vs. Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax and Hoyt Wilhelm, and 01 vs. Satchel Paige. (Pierce had no decision in his lone start against Warren Spahn; he also earned no decision in two All-Star starts against Robin Roberts.)[2]
Pierce struck out ten or more batters eleven times in his career,[2] and achieved his career high of 12 strikeouts four times; but due to characteristically low run support, he won only one of those four games, a 50 three-hit shutout of Kansas City on September 25, 1955 in which he recorded his 1,000th career strikeout.[96] He also recorded 12 strikeouts in a 42, 12-inning loss to the Philadelphia Athletics on July 24, 1953,[97] in a 10-inning scoreless tie against the Tigers on May 9, 1954,[98] and in a 31 loss at Baltimore on May 23, 1961 in which he pitched only six innings.[99] In 22 career starts in which he pitched into extra innings, Pierce had a record of 811 despite a 1.85 ERA. In his 41 complete-game losses (10 of which were against the Yankees), he compiled a 2.67 ERA with 231 strikeouts in 368 innings, a rate slightly higher than his career average.[2]
He was also a highly effective pitcher when used in a relief role, recording 32 career saves (possibly 34)[100] compared to only 9 blown saves, a success rate of nearly 80%. In his 14 career wins in relief (none of which resulted from a blown save), he averaged 3⅓ innings pitched and a 0.77 ERA.[2]
Using MVP voting results, historical surveys and sabermetric analysis, historian Bill Deane projected in 1989 that Pierce would have won the American League Cy Young Award in 1953 and 1956 if it had been given at the time;[101] the award was not created until 1956 (when the National League's Don Newcombe won the award by unanimous vote), and awards were not given for both leagues until 1967. In 1988, baseball historian and statistician Bill James chose Pierce as having had the tenth greatest career value among left-handers, ahead of six Hall of Famers.
It's really ridiculous that Pierce isn't in. I honestly think the MLB HOF is a joke though (as a fan). It just makes me upset because I'm sure the players really want to be in, and not be posthumously honored. Minnie most definitely deserves to be in also. I'd like to see a list of reasons why they shouldn't be, because I bet it's a lot shorter than why they should be.
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