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  #16  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:17 AM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Originally Posted by pearso66
There was no way of telling that our 5th starter would have that bad of an ERA. And it's really inflated by Munoz on Saturday. Kip was a headcase, and couldnt pitch with any pressure. Who knows, if he's on this team, maybe he does have an ERA above 12. Especially with the run support the 5th starter has been getting
Wells never pitched bad enough here to have anywhere near a 12 ERA. The fact is Wells didn't mesh with Nardi's pitching style. Wells is a power pitcher and Nardi is sitting there telling all his pitchers to nit pick at hte corners. Location matters, don't get me wrong, but it matters a lot more for Buehrle hten it does for Wells.

Cooper is much more suited for Wells' style of pitching as his theory is to have a pitcher pitch to his strengths. Nardi's theory was to attack a hitters weaknesses.


Bob
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  #17  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:27 AM
CubKilla CubKilla is offline
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Originally Posted by Randar68
Huh? He's dealt the right ones, meaning the ones that haven't turned into anything. He didn't deal Crede.
Doesn't matter. The one's KW kept/dealt haven't turned into anything more than, at best, average MLB players..... MB not withstanding. How much longer are we going to be fed the company line that we have one of the best minor league systems in baseball?
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  #18  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:27 AM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Originally Posted by gosox41
Wells never pitched bad enough here to have anywhere near a 12 ERA. The fact is Wells didn't mesh with Nardi's pitching style. Wells is a power pitcher and Nardi is sitting there telling all his pitchers to nit pick at hte corners. Location matters, don't get me wrong, but it matters a lot more for Buehrle hten it does for Wells.
wrong... wrong... wrong.

Nardi was guilty of mishandling his pitchers in many ways, but that wasn't one of them. That assertion is unfounded and simply uninformed. Nardi was not a good mesh for mentally weak pitchers and didn't work particularly well with young guys. Basically strolling to the mound and yelling at his pitchers "Just throw ****ing STRIKES!" when they lose command, their release point, etc., isn't a real effective method of coaching pitchers, and it particularly doesn't mesh well with fragile young ones.
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  #19  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:28 AM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Originally Posted by CubKilla
Doesn't matter. The one's KW kept/dealt haven't turned into anything more than, at best, average MLB players..... MB not withstanding. How much longer are we going to be fed the company line that we have one of the best minor league systems in baseball?
Sorry, who's feeding you that line? Never mind, you're grasping now...
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  #20  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:31 AM
CubKilla CubKilla is offline
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Originally Posted by Randar68
Wow, Fogg and Lowe have been so terrific, the Sox should never have taken a chance on dealing them in a risky move...
Once again, you miss the point. True, I was against the Ritchie trade from the moment it was announced, but to give up on three young players who haven't panned out, for the most part, doesn't excuse KW from making what was, at the time, a horribly lopsided trade based solely on what Ritchie was and what, primarily, KW and JF could have become based on their age.
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  #21  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:35 AM
CubKilla CubKilla is offline
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Originally Posted by Randar68
Sorry, who's feeding you that line? Never mind, you're grasping now...
The numbers don't lie..... especially in regards to our recent minor league pitching woes.
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  #22  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:37 AM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Originally Posted by CubKilla
The numbers don't lie..... especially in regards to our recent minor league pitching woes.
That is entirely irrelevant with the point you attempted to push across:

"How much longer are we going to be fed the company line that we have one of the best minor league systems in baseball?"
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  #23  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:43 AM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Originally Posted by Randar68
wrong... wrong... wrong.

Nardi was guilty of mishandling his pitchers in many ways, but that wasn't one of them. That assertion is unfounded and simply uninformed. Nardi was not a good mesh for mentally weak pitchers and didn't work particularly well with young guys. Basically strolling to the mound and yelling at his pitchers "Just throw ****ing STRIKES!" when they lose command, their release point, etc., isn't a real effective method of coaching pitchers, and it particularly doesn't mesh well with fragile young ones.
Either way Nardi didn't help Wells while Cooper would have been muh more beneficial to him.

And how do you know my assertion is 'unfounded and uninformed'? Just curious because I have heard differently in regards to Nardi and his theories on pitching.


Bob
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  #24  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:46 AM
CubKilla CubKilla is offline
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Originally Posted by Randar68
That is entirely irrelevant with the point you attempted to push across:

"How much longer are we going to be fed the company line that we have one of the best minor league systems in baseball?"
My point, in conjunction with my quote, was that we haven't had a minor league prospect pan out since MB..... and he was a low pick with relatively no fanfare. Our recent minor league call-ups with-in the White Sox Organization give failure a bad name. Few of them have been worth the time wasted posted about them. And if they have been, they were originally picked by a team other than the White Sox.
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  #25  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:53 AM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CubKilla
My point, in conjunction with my quote, was that we haven't had a minor league prospect pan out since MB..... and he was a low pick with relatively no fanfare. Our recent minor league call-ups with-in the White Sox Organization give failure a bad name. Few of them have been worth the time wasted posted about them. And if they have been, they were originally picked by a team other than the White Sox.
While I'm not defending the Sox farm system because while it is not ranked among the best (and it doesn't deserve to be) it is highly overrated. We keep hearing about all this talent and developing players yet the team is too afraid to bring up Borchard/Reed when our All Star RFer gets hurt and instead opts to bring up a no hitting catcher. I just saw the numbers by our RFer's since Magglio's injury and think that Reed/Borchard could have done better and would have been worth wasting an option.

But on the flipside the Sox are wasting options on guys like Diaz, Rauch, and Munoz. Instead of sticking with one for more then 2 starts they start shuffling everyone around. Is it because these guys aren't as good as they appear? Also, will someone please explain how bringing up a young guy who may not be ready for the majors (Munoz) to get shellacked and then immediately send him down is a good thing for player development?


Bob
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  #26  
Old 06-22-2004, 12:21 PM
delben91 delben91 is offline
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Originally Posted by gosox41
But on the flipside the Sox are wasting options on guys like Diaz, Rauch, and Munoz. Instead of sticking with one for more then 2 starts they start shuffling everyone around. Is it because these guys aren't as good as they appear? Also, will someone please explain how bringing up a young guy who may not be ready for the majors (Munoz) to get shellacked and then immediately send him down is a good thing for player development?


Bob
I personally think that Diaz or Rauch should've been put in the bullpen after their bad starts. The pen needs help and those two can't be any worse than Jackson or Politte are right now. Exposes them to the major leagues and lets them get accostomed and perhaps have some success.
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  #27  
Old 06-22-2004, 01:53 PM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Originally Posted by gosox41
it is highly overrated. We keep hearing about all this talent and developing players yet the team is too afraid to bring up Borchard/Reed when our All Star RFer gets hurt and instead opts to bring up a no hitting catcher.
Bob, the only reason you keep hearing about them is because people like myself, Daver, Rex, Vic, ChiSoxFan, etc enjoy talking about them, discussing their merits as prospects, strengths, weaknesses, etc. If you are going to cry afoul because people discuss them and then you bitch and moan when some of them fail, then DON'T READ THE ****ING THREADS!

Otherwise, SHUT THE **** UP.
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  #28  
Old 06-22-2004, 07:28 PM
Rex Hudler Rex Hudler is offline
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But on the flipside the Sox are wasting options on guys like Diaz, Rauch, and Munoz.
The Sox haven't wasted any options on Rauch, Diaz or Munoz. All were on the 40-man roster prior to this season, so their option for this season was used when they were sent to the Minors after spring training.
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  #29  
Old 06-23-2004, 12:22 AM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randar68
Bob, the only reason you keep hearing about them is because people like myself, Daver, Rex, Vic, ChiSoxFan, etc enjoy talking about them, discussing their merits as prospects, strengths, weaknesses, etc. If you are going to cry afoul because people discuss them and then you bitch and moan when some of them fail, then DON'T READ THE ****ING THREADS!

Otherwise, SHUT THE **** UP.
Aren't you bitter??? Please try reading my all of posts first, I'll try to use bright colors and bold to make them clearer. And I love how you answer questions with the cussing.

But you're right, I never have heard of any of those guys except from people posting at this web site. Not one time has Reed or Borchard or Rauch's name been mentioned anywhere else in the world except for here let alone anyone else in the Sox minor league system.

You may know a lot more then me about the Sox farm system and who's going to sign or get shipped where or whatever. Maybe you work for the team, I don't know and don't care. But you haven't answered any of my questions directly without cussing me out or calling me names or getting all emotional. Still doesn't help explain all the problems with the Sox and their farm system.




Bob
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  #30  
Old 06-23-2004, 09:20 AM
SEALgep SEALgep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gosox41
While I'm not defending the Sox farm system because while it is not ranked among the best (and it doesn't deserve to be) it is highly overrated. We keep hearing about all this talent and developing players yet the team is too afraid to bring up Borchard/Reed when our All Star RFer gets hurt and instead opts to bring up a no hitting catcher. I just saw the numbers by our RFer's since Magglio's injury and think that Reed/Borchard could have done better and would have been worth wasting an option.
Ya because Burke has been playing like **** ever since he was called up. Not to mention how it has totallly hampered Ozzie's options during the game.
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