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  #31  
Old 06-23-2004, 11:21 AM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Originally Posted by gosox41
Aren't you bitter??? Please try reading my all of posts first, I'll try to use bright colors and bold to make them clearer. And I love how you answer questions with the cussing.

But you're right, I never have heard of any of those guys except from people posting at this web site. Not one time has Reed or Borchard or Rauch's name been mentioned anywhere else in the world except for here let alone anyone else in the Sox minor league system.

You may know a lot more then me about the Sox farm system and who's going to sign or get shipped where or whatever. Maybe you work for the team, I don't know and don't care. But you haven't answered any of my questions directly without cussing me out or calling me names or getting all emotional. Still doesn't help explain all the problems with the Sox and their farm system.




Bob
Lock yourself in a closet and throw away the key. That way you will be less informed (not sure if it's possible) about prospects, therefore you can't cry about them being hyped.

ALL TEAMS TALK ABOUT THEIR PROSPECTS BECAUSE THEY ARE THE FUTURE!

You are some kind of dumb.
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  #32  
Old 06-23-2004, 11:48 AM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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Originally Posted by CubKilla
Doesn't matter. The one's KW kept/dealt haven't turned into anything more than, at best, average MLB players.
Outside of Wells, it doesn't appear that anyone we've traded away has done much either. So I don't think it can realistically be argued that Kenny's somehow giving away our good palyers and keeping bad ones.

That said - it does leave open the question of how "good" our system was back when it was so highly rated. Most of the guys who made it highly rated are stil around: Borchard, Crede, Rauch, Garland. They just haven't turned into stars.

And for what it's worth, between fully homegrown and acquired minor leaguers, we've developed 3 solid MLB starters since 2000 - Buehrle, Garland, Kip Wells. Without any stats to back it up, that seems to be at least above average for MLB teams - just under 1 a year. The current 5th starter debacle makes it seem worse than it really is.
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  #33  
Old 06-23-2004, 01:25 PM
jeremyb1 jeremyb1 is offline
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Originally Posted by CubKilla
The numbers don't lie..... especially in regards to our recent minor league pitching woes.
What numbers are those? Munoz obliterating AA before his callup? Rauch leading the International League in ERA? Diaz with a solid ERA and good peripherals? I'm confused.
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  #34  
Old 06-23-2004, 01:46 PM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Originally Posted by SEALgep
Ya because Burke has been playing like **** ever since he was called up. Not to mention how it has totallly hampered Ozzie's options during the game.
I'd rather have Reed/Borchard in the line up everyday then have Burke in his 7 at bats up here to go along with Timo and Gload's offense.


Bob
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  #35  
Old 06-23-2004, 01:52 PM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Originally Posted by Randar68
Lock yourself in a closet and throw away the key. That way you will be less informed (not sure if it's possible) about prospects, therefore you can't cry about them being hyped.

ALL TEAMS TALK ABOUT THEIR PROSPECTS BECAUSE THEY ARE THE FUTURE!

You are some kind of dumb.
OK I'll get right on that oh great Randar.

I'm betting more and more you work for the team in some capacity. Are you KW's right hand man? Rick Hahn's assistant. You certainly to claim to know a lot about Nardi and issues like that without backing up with proof, but have plenty of insults to throw around.

So if you are working for the Sox organizaiton in some capacity with the minor leagues maybe you should lock yourself in a closet. You don't want to actually seem to talk about the future. Of coursebased on recent history it looks pretty dim. KW's inability to find an adequate starter and creating this merry-go-round. And why call up the organization's top prospects when you can bring up 27 year old third string catchers. I'm sure according to you it's a good thing to bring up Diaz or Munoz for a sport start to let them get knocked around so you can send then back down and use up options that you'd rather save on Reed/Borchard so we can see Burke. But of course you clearly know all as you claim. Of course that should be in teal. As whenever someone questions your logic or thinking your best argument is to insult them.


It really helps support the point your making since no one here is as intellectually superior as you.

Bob
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  #36  
Old 06-23-2004, 01:54 PM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Originally Posted by jeremyb1
What numbers are those? Munoz obliterating AA before his callup? Rauch leading the International League in ERA? Diaz with a solid ERA and good peripherals? I'm confused.
How about 1, 1, and 2. Those are the number of starts those guys have gotten so far after one game. Why can't the Sox orgnaization stand behind one of these guys and give them a legit shot as a starter???? Why the shuffling?


Bob
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  #37  
Old 06-23-2004, 02:00 PM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Originally Posted by gosox41
OK I'll get right on that oh great Randar.

I'm betting more and more you work for the team in some capacity. Are you KW's right hand man? Rick Hahn's assistant. You certainly to claim to know a lot about Nardi and issues like that without backing up with proof, but have plenty of insults to throw around.

So if you are working for the Sox organizaiton in some capacity with the minor leagues maybe you should lock yourself in a closet. You don't want to actually seem to talk about the future. Of coursebased on recent history it looks pretty dim. KW's inability to find an adequate starter and creating this merry-go-round. And why call up the organization's top prospects when you can bring up 27 year old third string catchers. I'm sure according to you it's a good thing to bring up Diaz or Munoz for a sport start to let them get knocked around so you can send then back down and use up options that you'd rather save on Reed/Borchard so we can see Burke. But of course you clearly know all as you claim. Of course that should be in teal. As whenever someone questions your logic or thinking your best argument is to insult them.


It really helps support the point your making since no one here is as intellectually superior as you.

Bob
Dumber by the post. Is this like the "I bet you've only been here for a few months" kind of crap from before?

Get a clue, although I don't think you'd know what to do with it...
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  #38  
Old 06-23-2004, 02:03 PM
Rex Hudler Rex Hudler is offline
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Originally Posted by gosox41
OK I'll get right on that oh great Randar.

I'm betting more and more you work for the team in some capacity. Are you KW's right hand man? Rick Hahn's assistant. You certainly to claim to know a lot about Nardi and issues like that without backing up with proof, but have plenty of insults to throw around.

So if you are working for the Sox organizaiton in some capacity with the minor leagues maybe you should lock yourself in a closet. You don't want to actually seem to talk about the future. Of coursebased on recent history it looks pretty dim. KW's inability to find an adequate starter and creating this merry-go-round. And why call up the organization's top prospects when you can bring up 27 year old third string catchers. I'm sure according to you it's a good thing to bring up Diaz or Munoz for a sport start to let them get knocked around so you can send then back down and use up options that you'd rather save on Reed/Borchard so we can see Burke. But of course you clearly know all as you claim. Of course that should be in teal. As whenever someone questions your logic or thinking your best argument is to insult them.


It really helps support the point your making since no one here is as intellectually superior as you.

Bob
Hey, I don't want to get in the middle of your argument here, but just to clarify one thing...... Options have nothing to do with any of this. Options on all of the players on the 40-man roster (Munoz, Rauch, Burke, etc.) were exercised at the end of Spring Training. Options are counted in years, so any number of promotions and demotions can occur within one year and it only counts as one option.

Back to fighting....... lol
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  #39  
Old 06-23-2004, 02:26 PM
California Sox California Sox is offline
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Post It's all a crap shoot

I think our expectations for the White Sox farm system get unrealistic at times.

I love talking about Sox prospects, but the fact is that the chances that any one player is going to develop into an all star is pretty slim. There are very few "can't miss" prospects in baseball (Prior, Mauer, B.J. Upton...) and where the Sox draft, they usually don't have access to those players. Even some "can't miss" guys do miss (Rick Ankiel, Josh Hamilton, Todd Van Poppel). And some guys look like misses their first few years then turn it on (Shawn Green's a good example.) Every organization has it's share of disappointments. Look at Cleveland. They have one of the best farm systems in baseball, but Brandon Phillips has disappointed, Jeremy Guthrie is a 24 year-old who can't get out of Double-A, etc. The Sox are not alone in having half or more than half of their prospects fail to produce.

Most prospects never become all stars. But it's still fun to speculate about potential. And on the whole, I think the Sox have gotten a better than average return from the prospects they've developed and acquired in trade.

In the last ten years they've developed Cameron, Lee, Ordonez, Crede, Rowand, Buerhle, Wells traded for Foulke, Garland, Olivo, Marte, Harris, and Uribe. A lot of their pitchers (especially Rauch) have been disappointments, but their home-grown position players range from adequate (Crede, Rowand) to very good (CLee, Cameron, Durham) to perennial all stars (Thomas, Ordonez). I'm sure a few of their top prospects are going to come up and suck, and other guys are not going to be very highly touted, but they'll excell. You never really know who's going to do what until it happens. That's what makes baseball so unpredictable and so much fun to watch.
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  #40  
Old 06-23-2004, 02:30 PM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California Sox
I think our expectations for the White Sox farm system get unrealistic at times.

I love talking about Sox prospects, but the fact is that the chances that any one player is going to develop into an all star is pretty slim. There are very few "can't miss" prospects in baseball (Prior, Mauer, B.J. Upton...) and where the Sox draft, they usually don't have access to those players. Even some "can't miss" guys do miss (Rick Ankiel, Josh Hamilton, Todd Van Poppel). And some guys look like misses their first few years then turn it on (Shawn Green's a good example.) Every organization has it's share of disappointments. Look at Cleveland. They have one of the best farm systems in baseball, but Brandon Phillips has disappointed, Jeremy Guthrie is a 24 year-old who can't get out of Double-A, etc. The Sox are not alone in having half or more than half of their prospects fail to produce.

Most prospects never become all stars. But it's still fun to speculate about potential. And on the whole, I think the Sox have gotten a better than average return from the prospects they've developed and acquired in trade.

In the last ten years they've developed Cameron, Lee, Ordonez, Crede, Rowand, Buerhle, Wells traded for Foulke, Garland, Olivo, Marte, Harris, and Uribe. A lot of their pitchers (especially Rauch) have been disappointments, but their home-grown position players range from adequate (Crede, Rowand) to very good (CLee, Cameron, Durham) to perennial all stars (Thomas, Ordonez). I'm sure a few of their top prospects are going to come up and suck, and other guys are not going to be very highly touted, but they'll excell. You never really know who's going to do what until it happens. That's what makes baseball so unpredictable and so much fun to watch.
Great post CalSox!
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  #41  
Old 06-23-2004, 02:40 PM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Originally Posted by jabrch
Great post CalSox!
Amen. I don't expect Captain Whine to get it, but at least you put it succinctly.
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  #42  
Old 06-23-2004, 02:56 PM
Cubbiesuck13 Cubbiesuck13 is offline
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Originally Posted by gosox41
How about 1, 1, and 2. Those are the number of starts those guys have gotten so far after one game. Why can't the Sox orgnaization stand behind one of these guys and give them a legit shot as a starter???? Why the shuffling?


Bob
i don't think any of them have shown the promise that they had hoped. even in a single start that they get rocked they can show promise. perhaps kw and guillen did not see it. i think they did in rauch. i think that is the reason why he is back up. i agree that they should stick with one guy for more than a start. it hurts that there is more than a couple guys blowing away AA and AAA hitters in that respect. if anything, it shows how bad they want to win NOW. i applaud the tenacity but think it is time to let rauch run with it one way or the other. if the rest of the staff would settle down again we really would not need another pitcher to win the division. it would help getting to the world series but first thing is first.

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  #43  
Old 06-23-2004, 03:24 PM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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Ah yes - another thread hijacked to become a KW is stupid thread. Just what we have been missing here.
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  #44  
Old 06-23-2004, 03:26 PM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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Originally Posted by Randar68
Amen. I don't expect Captain Whine to get it, but at least you put it succinctly.
We have been in the top 3 of our division, and the top half of the league every year since 1993, and have not finished more than 2 games below .500 during that time. It's funny to hear all the bitching. Can you imagine if this wasn't a franchise that has been consistently competitive?
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  #45  
Old 06-23-2004, 03:46 PM
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FarWestChicago FarWestChicago is offline
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Originally Posted by Randar68
You are some kind of dumb.
Randar, lay of the personal insults.
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